Ep123 How to recognise when you need a business mentor and where to find one.

Show Notes:

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Visit website: https://kelseychapman.com/ 

Resources:

Get a copy of Kelsey's book, "What They Taught Me" here: https://kelseychapman.com/book 

 

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Show Transcription: 

Tina

Have you ever felt like you wanted the guidance of a mentor and you didn't know how to find them? My special guest today Kelsey Chapman is a specialist in recognising the mentors who will take you from dream to done. Let's go.

 

Hello, I'm Tina Tower, and you're listening to her Empire Builder. For my first decade of business, I thought grinding and hustling and working harder than everyone else was my path to success. It was pretty successful by a lot of measures, but it led to burnout and adrenal fatigue. Then when I travelled around the world, on my family gap year, I discovered the simplicity and the reach of online business. And I completely fell in love. You have so much knowledge and expertise that's within, and I want to help you to package that. So you can also help to lift others up. So how do you build a thriving million dollar business based on everything that's in your mind? This is Her Empire Builder, the podcast.

 

Hey, friends, and welcome to Episode 123 of Her Empire Builder. Today on the podcast, I have Kelsey Chapman who is a new author talking to us today. Now, I have always had mentors and business coaches, and they've played a really large part in my life. You'll hear me talk about a couple of them in this episode. And I know a lot of people go, what is the difference between a mentor and a business coach? And why do I need them? And do I need them? And then if I do know I need them? How do I actually get them? So we're going to be talking about that today with the fabulous Kelsey Chapman who is an author podcaster and personal cheerleader to women building their dream life and business. When she first launched her own brand in 2015, She felt all the overwhelming feelings too, it was scary to take such a giant leap, and to commit to showing up for a dream. She didn't know whether it would pan out. I mean, we never do right? Mentorship is what pushed her to rise up. Over the first few years of business. She leaned on the shoulders of incredible mentors who took her under their wing and taught her how to make the jump from dreamer to doer. Kelsey needed their expert wisdom to shift old perspectives discover the next right steps that would help her to execute the vision and stay hopeful throughout the journey. Kelsey has mentors helped to shape her character. So she she could become the CEO and leader that she is today. And now she's excited to pay it forward and be that cheerleader for you, too. She believes in you and can turn your wildest dreams into reality. You can snag it Kelsey, his new book, which is called Dream to Done anywhere books are sold and listen to her podcast, the radiant podcast. Here she is Kelsey Chapman.

 

Kelsey, welcome to Her Empire Builder.

 

Kelsey

It is such a joy to be here with you today. Thank you for having me.

 

Tina

And you are fresh back from the Dominican Republic, which we were just talking about. And I am so jealous because we haven't get got to go anywhere. And what was that feeling like when you got that sun hitting your face?

 

Kelsey

Well, oh my gosh. I mean, first the sun hitting my face and seeing water I am my best self by the water, which you probably see more regularly than I do.

 

Tina

But also you live in Nashville.

 

Kelsey

Yeah, I'm landlocked here. I mean, I've got some lakes. But I'm pretty landlocked. And I think it was the first time I've not touched my email for a week straight in five years.

 

Tina

So Wow. How have you gone five years without doing that?

 

Kelsey

I think I bought into a pretty bad limiting belief of just I need to be available. So a crisis will occur. It needs to be me that answers it. Obviously, I have some control things going on there. I like to think I'm not a control freak. But I mean, the writing's on the wall. And so I think I just thought I couldn't. And I thought I didn't think that logging off would have gratification that lasted beyond the week, I thought it would be relaxing to be offline for a week. But I didn't realise that even when I came back, I'd have so much more clarity and margin, the creative margin already. It's just like, Okay, I will be doing this.

 

Tina

So now how often have you planned in those intervals of switch off?

 

Kelsey

At least four weeks out of the year, once a quarter? I travel a lot more than that. But realistically, you know, you travel in a normal world a lot more frequently. So I can't take off every time but I could probably schedule no calls on those days and just catch up on emails or do admin when I travel and plan to only do calls and stuff or I have to be fully present when I'm at home. So it just taught me a lot like I can show up so much better if I take space.

 

Tina

Yes. And it's amazing. you've kind of got to burn out a little to get that lesson properly. Like there's always I had adrenal fatigue in 2016, which taught me amazing lessons, because I also like you subscribe to well, you know if it is to be, it's up to me, and I can do it so fast and so well, so I'm going to do it. But there's only so much that we can do and then that will burn out. So I switch off from Friday to Sunday. I have no phone. No, a lot of the time. No social media, definitely no emails or anything like that. And it is amazing to go for days on three days off. Beautiful.

 

Kelsey

That is something I've been considering. So that might have just affirmed an inkling I had about least deleting email and social from my phone on Fridays through Sunday night or Monday morning.

 

Tina

And it's something I was so worried about, but no one notices. Okay, as like, no one knows.

I'm not that important.

 

Kelsey

I know. And I like to respond to every email every dm everything.

 

Tina

And then the other thing talking about No, this is not where I intended our conversation to go. This is where everyone is going. One week out of every month is a week where I have no appointments like it's what space. So it's very much a work week, but it's a creative work week. And that week is like bliss, because I can go What am I feeling and I'll make videos and reels and all the things without any interruption. It's phenomenal.

 

Kelsey

Ok, you are speaking my language because I thought of this of having just a week with it's the START STOP of meetings. I'm so I'm an extrovert. So I love meetings, but the START STOP disrupts my creative flow. So I think you're just you're,

you're hugging me. Yeah.

 

Tina

All right. So tell me about your business, and how you got to where you are now.

 

Kelsey

Man. Well, I am a Jill of all trades. And I've had quite the journey. But I got started probably six years ago, because I want to write books. I you know, graduated with a liberal arts degree degree. Like many people who graduate with liberal arts degree. So it's been a few years, you know, I worked for the government for a year, nothing fancy, but you know, just like, normal jobs. And after a few years of that, I kinda was like, well, I'll just start a blog, you know, I, I've always wanted to be a writer. And no one's going to just, you know, pick up a book for me, if I have no audience, that would be just a journal pretty much. And so I need to create a blog and showcase that there's a demand for my words, which is so interesting, because I didn't really have a marketing background, but that just kind of came naturally to me. I had taken some marketing classes in high school, what 16 How old am I 31, like 13 years ago, since I've been in that kind of marketing class. But I've always had these marketing tendencies and these entrepreneurial tendencies, but I really just, I wanted to be a writer. And so I just thought, I need to showcase that there's a demand for these words. And so I started writing and I was like, Okay, how do I get people to my blog? I had a little blogspot blog, you know, when you buy templates, for your blog spot,

 

Tina

What did you start out writing about?

 

Kelsey

Oh, gosh, it was we had a marriage and motherhood Monday, although neither of us were mothers. So I have no idea why we thought that was a great idea. We had guest posters for that. But why I'm not sure. We had a fitness Friday. And both of us love to travel. We both been around the worlds we had a travel Wednesday, and really just lifestyle posts. We weren't trying to be influencers or famous that was really before influencing as a thing hasn't been five years.

Influencing was a bit on the up and up. And we saw like numbers equated to opportunities. So we weren't looking to necessarily, you know, make a full time living with fashion blogging. But if we were like, we can get our numbers up to get what we want, we'll do it. And so for me, that was a book deal, and to maybe be able to quit my day job at some point, but really, to just be able to take my creativity to the next level. And so we did everything we could do to grow. We learned Instagram, we kind of looked at the landscape of social media, Pinterest felt overwhelming. I mean, it still feels overwhelming for me, although it can be very powerful, especially for blogging. Facebook, even at the time was kind of dependent on ads. It wasn't quite like it is today. And Instagram just felt the most malleable. It's kind of like what Clubhouse right now is what Instagram was when I got started. It was just like the perfect time to get in and grow. And I'm telling you, my arms would hurt up to my elbows every day. I mean, just carpal tunnel from being on my phone. That sounds crazy, but it created some opportunity for me. So here we are. Yeah, so we grew to 40,000 followers that you're on Instagram and 10,000 page views a month, which for two little girls from a suburb in Tennessee. We're pretty pleased.

 

Tina

No buying those followers?

 

Kelsey

No buying no paid ads, we knew enough to think, okay, like, we know if you buy followers, I've never actually been to a purchasing followers website and no shame for anyone out there who's done this because sometimes you just don't know better, especially back then. But we knew like okay, but if their purchase, they're not like my ideal reader. Again, we didn't really have any marketing background, but we knew we needed to showcase like, this is someone if they read my blog, they'll read my book, right? And so we were thinking in a business sense without really knowing it, we were just winging it.

 

Tina

And 40,000 in a year. So what, what when you are giving yourself carpal tunnel every day? What were you doing, engaging with new people every day. So we'd say okay, if they follow, and we really cross pollinate in a few different areas of interest. So if they follow this traveller, because we have the travel Wednesday segment, let's engage with all these travel people on Instagram. Again, influencers were very, very small, it wasn't even like it is today. But let's engage with their commenters, their followers, their audience, if they are an author, we love that we think will write similarly to you, let's engage with their followers. If they like her, they'll like us. And we kind of just took that approach. I mean, we were on our phones, constantly. And it really probably robbed us from being present for our real life. After that year, I was like, I'm never going to waste my life creating an Insta life. But it did, I think there is a season for running in a season for resting. And that was a pretty extensive season of running for me. And I don't function like that now, I don't think my phone should be that big of a pie chart of my energy each day. But it did create some opportunity for me.

Tina

Yeah, and I love that because you hear you say a lot of those success stories and people will go 40,000 followers in a year, like I want that. But a lot of people aren't willing to put that effort in that you put into it. So I love that you talk about that you did actually spend all day every day talking to me and going like old school on it to in that that real valuable connection, which I love.

 

Kelsey

Totally, it's like the people who sit in clubhouses for 16 hours a day right now they're not really in there, but they're leaving it open. I don't want to do that to grow there. Maybe I'll figure out a way to maximise my time and not spend that much time but if that's what it takes, I'm probably not going to do it right now.

Yeah, I find interesting, much more leverage. The hardcopy clubhouse for me has been the time I go, who are these people that are sitting there just listening all day? Like do some work or get outside? Yeah, but we'll probably eight hour words and a couple of years ago.

 

Tina

So now you're so you went from talking about all things lifestyle? How did you hone that into talking about the mentorship that you're talking about now?

 

Kelsey

Man, so I think I realised, then that anything I learned I want to teach. And so that was really even my entry point into the online business and marketing space. I never intended to be in this space. Like I said, I'd been in marketing classes in high school, but I didn't even do that in college. You know, I had had teachers even in high school, so you've got to go into marketing. And I'm like, No, thank you. I'm going to do something more creative and noble.

 

Tina

More creative? marketing is like the most creative thing ever!

 

Kelsey

Oh, I know, it’s what I do now. But at the time, I just thought it was you know, so stuffy. And I didn't really have an experience or an example of a solopreneur marketer. I was thinking corporate Really. So I realised, though, in that moment, that anything I learned, I love to teach, and now a few years fast forwarded, as I sat down to write the book, I realised, oh, anything I learned I teach, it's because that's been modelled for me. I've had these women Invest in me everything they know. And it's totally shortcut my process, but at the time, that's really just how I segued into the online space was, okay, like we close up shop on that blog. After a year, we had different visions for where it would go. But then we kind of went our separate ways and did our own thing. And I really focused on the business side of things. For a few years, I blogged less and less, I think the admin of doing this online business thing kind of zapped my creative energy there for a while. But then I got back in a groove I started writing again. And what came out of me was the story of mentorship. And that is the first chapter of my book on mentorship and it's the story of this woman who invested And then when it was really convenient. Turns out, you know, I didn't learn this until I'd known her for 15 years, but she was engaged my dad. And so why would she Invest in me? Like, how inconvenient I personally would not like to do weekend drop offs and sleep overs with my ex college sweethearts children.

That would mean me interacting with him on a regular basis. And I would just prefer not to. But we lived on the same street, her and her daughter and her daughter, and I picked each other as best friends. And instead of squashing the relationship, she fostered it. And she didn't treat me like any other kid that came to her house. And now at 31, her home is truly the most stable fixture of my childhood, I still go to her house and sit in the same two chairs and catch up and talk about life. And so the story of her came out of me and I started assessing and thinking, well, man, I actually have a lot of women who have invested in me. And if I think about what people ask me, it's how did you find the mentor? Where did you find them? And it's like, well, man, if it's been life, or business, marriage, friendship, whatever, I've just found someone who's crushing it in that one area, they might not be crushing it in every area, but they're crushing it, and that one that I want to grow in. And I will ask them to share what they know in the business space that sometimes looks like paying someone because I don't expect someone to just give me their time in what they've learned to grow their business for free. But I'll never regret the money. I've invested in online mentors and business mentors. And so I could just shout mentorship from the rooftop. And obviously, from that point, my business took a took kind of a course of focusing on mentorship, but really, that's my life message.

 

Tina

And so when you're looking at mentorship, are you looking at it from a more formal or an informal sort of capacity to go or both?

 

Kelsey

I think both, you know, I think life mentors tend to be a little less formal, like, I'm probably not going to pay the mom in my neighbourhood who I think is just an incredible Mother, I'm going to just make playdates with her and learn.

 

Tina

Say there’s the mom in the neighbourhood. You go, I want to be a mom like her and I want to learn from her, would you say? Will you be my mentor? Or would you just kind of be there?

 

Kelsey

I'd probably be there. And I would put myself in our proximity more and more, and I'd feel it out. I have been joking a lot lately of like, you know, we know on the first date not to come on too strong and start babies, right? Like, are you my husband? Will you marry me? Or are you my wife? Will you marry me? That's a little much right away. So you know, maybe you just get to know someone and at some point, if it feels appropriate, say like, Can we meet on a regular basis, like I just see you crushing in that area, I would love to grow in the area you're thriving in and I, I also recommend reading the room. If that person is a little more open ended, maybe it's fine to not even label it. But if there there are certain people that are like, Don't waste my time come to our meeting with your three talking points, if that's them, you might need to do that, whether they're a business or a life mentor.

 

Tina

Yeah. And so, because I do think that it's something that used to happen a lot in, in society really naturally. And now we're living in these real, like siloed things where we're not in the community, and we're not learning from our mothers and our aunts and our grandmothers and all of that sort of thing. So is that something that you recommend people go and go and seek out to have that sort of mentorship? And that that sort of guidance?

 

Kelsey

Yeah, I think it will forever, you know, yield fruit in your life, you know, for lack of better words, I mean, the mentors who have invested what they know, I mean, you have gotten some bad advice along the way. But that's my responsibility to wade through, they can just tell me what they know, I can put what doesn't work for me on a shelf, and I can take the rest and apply it. And then I can do the same for someone else. And trust that not every piece of advice I give is gonna land, but some of it will, and maybe it will impact their lives.

 

Tina

Yeah. And so where do you make the difference between going from mentor to business coach?

 

 

Kelsey

You know, I've been discussing this a lot. And I think there are some nuances in the language we use. So also, it depends on like the individual circle and the person that you want to learn from, they might I'm seeing a lot of coaches calling themselves a mentor now and they're kind of reading between the lines of what those expectations are in that circle. But for me personally, I have hired two women as my business coach. I did not think they would be life mentors. I expected to work with them for the six months or the year and said You know, like, I had no expectation that they're just going to be available to me forever. But in those relationships, I really also invested back I said, hey, these are areas where I might be able to serve you and give that to you. These are my sweet spots, especially at the time, Instagram, my two business coaches didn't really know Instagram. So I was like, let me help you. I ran their account, just like I ran my client accounts that I charged for, for free. Because I was like, Man, what they're passing along to me, I might be paying for it. But I still want to give back to them. They are shortcutting. Well, and I just felt natural, like they, they are shortcutting my process by years. And so why not give back to them? And I think to them, that showed a different level of investment. So am I still paying them? No, but they're still in my life. I don't go to them for everything. If I found myself going to them every day, I'd probably start paying them again. Because that would maybe be I would read the room and feel like that might be a little much, Kelsey. But they're kind of like my board of advisors now where I go, and I say, Hey, I just want to touch base with you. What do you think about this? This is what I'm doing right? Now? Does this feel right for me? Like you know me, you've seen me function in business for four years. I love your thoughts. And so I think that, for me, a mentor transitions a little beyond a coach, but then sometimes coaches call themselves mentors. And so you kind of got to read the room. But that's my approach towards it.

 

Tina

Yeah, I love that. And have you got like a, when you've had mentors and coaches and the differences in the past? Is there a certain time that you think you know what you should commit to that you mentioned before six months or 12 months? Have you found an optimal time with the people that you work with to go, this is a good kind of relationship to get everything you can get and then it's time to be able to grow and move on to someone else? Or have you stuck with some people for years and years.

 

Kelsey

I would stick with someone for years and years like the the mentors in my life, I paid for their programmes for years at a time as a as a student or a you know attendee, but I also started giving back pretty early like, within like three months, six months. But I will say I mean, it also depends on your coaches coaching package, some people only operate on six months or three month windows of time. And so give yourself time and space to test the waters within the context of their programme based on what you can afford to because that's a that's a nuance here. But I think the best relational equity comes from longer term investment, because you have time to see people operate and seasons to see like them thriving during the launch, but also resting and disappearing for four weeks, you know. And so if we're talking in the business space, specifically, and so I just, I always say the more time the better but also, as a person receiving mentorship as the mentee, it is your responsibility to say this doesn't settle with me. And maybe I thought I'd be here, you know, six months, but I'm only going to stay on the three month contract. I'm going to honour what I committed to pay someone but maybe I need to cut it shorter than I thought because this isn't a fit, because not every mentor or not every person you think you want to be your mentor is going to be a fit, right?

 

TIna

Well, I'm a massive fan of mentoring and coaches. I've had, you know, one of my top mentors for 17 years now. She came along to me like in my first what I signed up to her programme in my first year of business, which was 17 years ago, and she's still someone that I call on to go, Hey, I'm thinking of this. What do you think? And he's always there to support and give advice and she's just the wisest woman.

 

Kelsey

Yes, it sounds like we have such a similar experience. I love I always tell my mentors in the least stage five clinger way like I am very much can read a room but I'm like, y'all are my rider dies and you're stuck with me for life. But then I'm like, but if I ever come on too strong, tell me to back off.

 

Tina

I love it. People love it. Appreciate it. And that's the thing. I do think there's a difference between, for me the mentorship and the business coaching and going, like you said, when people charge for their services, you can't get that for free. But then there's different things in going like get advice and have that help. And there is that line there where you can then choose Do you want to pay them for their services? Or do you want them there as kind of on the periphery?

Okay, so tell me about your book.

 

Kelsey

Man. Well, I clearly love women investing in women or you know, people investing in people, it doesn't just have to be female oriented. Because I've benefited so much from these ladies who aren't crushing it in every single area of life. I mean, anyone who's ever been married knows, no one's Perfect. And so how could you have a mentor that's literally perfect in every area, that would be an impossible expectation. So these are ordinary women, operating extraordinarily in one area of life, or two or three, but not every single area. And I think stripping away the expectation of someone being perfect or on a pedestal or famous. That's a big one right now, right? We want the famous mentor or the most known mentor, you know, I just think that's not necessary. They might be an ordinary person in your life already. And they can pass along extraordinary wisdom that can change everything for you. One sentence can change everything. Yeah. And so I wrote my stories to highlight different lessons that I learned from each mentor, to showcase Hey, we really zeroed in on this, we didn't see where I went on everything we zeroed in on this subject with with this person, and then helping the reader to look for that in their own life first and their inner circle, that person might already be there. They might not and they might need to go out and look for it. I've been in seasons where I'm like, Okay, I'm assessing, I don't think that person is here. Like, I need to go find it, especially when I, when I jumped into having my own business. I didn't know anyone who ran an online business. You know, this is a relatively newer industry. So I didn't know anyone in my town of 100,000 people doing that. There probably are, but I didn't personally know them. So I had to go look for that. And that was uncomfortable. And sometimes like the very worst part of dating, but it's worth it.

 

Tina

Yes, yes. Excellent. All right. So I've linked to the book, down below in the show notes so you can find you and you're very easy to find on social media and everything. So share the episode, let Kelsey know that you are listening, any mentoring words of wisdom that you would like to leave people with?

 

Kelsey

Man? Well, when you're looking for a mentor, put yourself out there, it's gonna feel vulnerable and awkward. I've been there. I remember walking up to Harriet at a cookout and saying, Can we meet for coffee? And she was like, Why? What do you think I have to offer you and I'm like, you're just amazing. You know, it was uncomfortable, but it's worth it. The I'd say the risk is worth the reward. You might risk rejection. But I'd say when you do have that connection that's meaningful. It's worth it. It's worth any rejection you might encounter along the way.

 

Tina

I love that we all need to be more supported. I think mentorship, masterminds, business coaching, anything that can surround you with a tribe of people that are in your corner is the most fabulous thing the superpower.

 

Kelsey

Yeah, sign me up. I love mentorship. Thanks for having me.

 

Tina

Thank you for listening to this episode of her Empire Builder. If you loved it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook for your friends. And if you really want to deliver me smile, you can pop a review on iTunes. I'd love to hear from you. So if you have any questions, email me at podcast at Tina tower.com. And if you want to know more about what we do, head over to Tina tower.com. Now I truly hope this podcast gives you so much value and you can use it to dream big, plan well and take massive action in building your very own Empire. That's perfect. Just for you.