Ep143: The New Hustle With Emma Isaacs

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www.businesschicks.com

 

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Show Transcription: 

 

Hello friends, welcome to Episode 143 of her Empire Builder podcast. Today, I have a special guest for you. I know I bring you a lot of special guests. Today is one of my oldest business friends, Emma Isaacs. And you know a lot of these I read their actual professional bio, but I'm not going to do that for Emma because she does intro herself quite well in our interview, but also, I like being able to tell the human behind the business. Emma is a unicorn of a human there is no one like her. I have spent the last 17 years in business. And I know a lot of business women and I've become friends with a lot of business women, and there is no one like Em. I met Emma, She's the founder of Business chicks. If you don't know me already,  Emma adorably introduced herself as if no one knew who she was, but I'm like, everyone knows who you are. But if you don't know who Emma is, she is the global CEO of business chicks, which is one of the most connective Business Women's networks in Australia. And I say connective because I joined business chicks, about 12 or 13 years ago, so I was a few years into my business journey. And I went along to a business chicks breakfast as a lot of people do for networking events. And I have met some of my best friends through business chicks. So through that network, I have been to different events. I've been nominated for awards, I've been put forward for Media opportunities, I've gone to Africa with the Hunger Project, I've gone on different conferences, there's been so many experiences and connections made. And I know I'm not alone in that. And this is the power of networks and people that are able to bring people together. And that is what I think Em embodies. She's the connector, she very much, finds what people are about and what they're wanting to do, and then connects them with other people. She's elusive in terms of she's got the boundaries sorted out in terms of I do quote, during our interview, you will hear one of my favourite Oprah quotes that I think she has totally nailed. But this is why I have interviewed Emma today is she had her new book, she had her previous book winging it come out a couple of years ago, and her new book, the new hustle is just been released. And it is fabulous. Really, really fabulous. You know, I read it, and I read a lot of business books, and I kind of read and I was like, Yes, yes. Because there's so many different things in it that we need to hear. And it doesn't matter whether you're new in business or whether you've been going for decades, there are still these things that we need reminders of in terms of going you know what it's okay to have boundaries and remembering why we started business in the first place. And that was so that we could have lives right and so many people there's there's a joke that goes around that goes Yes, I left my 40 hour a week job so that I could work 80 hours a week as self employed. And that's what we want to be able to avoid. So let's get straight into our interview. I love it. I love Emma. She's a fabulous human being. Emma Isaacs ladies and gentlemen. Hello, I'm Tina Tower, and you're listening to her Empire Builder. For my first decade of business, I thought grinding and hustling and working harder than everyone else was my path to success. It was pretty successful by a lot of measures, but it led to burnout and adrenal fatigue. Then when I travelled around the world, on my family gap year, I discovered the simplicity and the reach of online business. And I completely fell in love. 

 

 

Tina:

 

You have so much knowledge and expertise that's within and I want to help you to package that. So you can also help to lift others up. So how do you build a thriving million dollar business based on everything that's in your mind? This is her Empire Builder, the podcast. Emma welcome to her Empire Builder. Yeah, great to be here. Thanks for having me. I am so excited like we just you know you like hit record. Tina, come on. to you How long since I talked to you time is all going but I think like four years, three years, four years. Tell me that long, it's not possible. It's a long time. Well, it was before my trip. And that was three years ago. So yeah, it would have been just before that I think I ran away from the world.

 

Emma:

 

We have to do we have to do better than that. We can't let go another three or four years. What is the last couple of years? we can't count the last 18 months as any sort of barometer of not even time, So, take that away. And maybe in a quart a year, that's fine.

 

 

Tina:

 

I know, you're, you're in the US, and you've been able to fly around. I've just I'm getting laughed at at the moment. Because I've booked a retreat in April in the US, and people like us, you will not be able to leave the country. I know I will. I will paddle I will get in a little new learn. Oh, you've been in the US for five years now.

 

Emma:

 

It's a type of six. I think I think this December, it'll be seven. I think that's right. Wow. Or about that wrong? I don't know six or seven. It feels like a while.

 

Tina:

 

Time for life. Okay, let's start there. So why? Why did you leg it out of Australia over to the US? Yes.

 

Emma:

 

So for anyone who's not familiar with my story, I'm what I call a career entrepreneur. I think I just made that thing up. But basically what it means is that I spent my entire career so far working for myself and being self employed, and have had some beautiful experiences as a result of, you know, that career path. So I started my first company when I was 18. We bought a really beautiful little business with that was a recruitment agency that a lot of fun with that was invited along to a business chicks event. When I was in my mid 20s. I said to the person who invited me absolutely not no way not going to anything in the cars themselves, chicks that's so derogatory to women. I'm a feminist, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm not doing that. And she said, Get over yourself and come along to this thing. So and I walk to this incredible room of you know, a couple 100 women. There's a guest speaker there, I've got a notepad and pen, I'm ready to write down all her wisdom and all her tips for running a successful business. And she proceeds to take off her clothes and play the guitar as a comedian, as a guest speaker. And I just remember having the most wild, you know, was so fun and being really in Thrall with this brand and the way that they put the comedian on stage that would take off, you know, her clothes down to her underwear. So I thought what is this looks fantastic. And I ran back to my recruitment agency and I passed around my credit card and I said to everyone, let's become members. And let's buy three tables. In the next event. I've never seen anything like this before. And the way I built my first business was really through networking and relationships and making sure that I was doing favours for people making sure I was becoming memorable and trying to create an impact with everyone I met, So to find this kind of networking thing that I'd never heard of, and fall in love with, it was really special. So we went on to the next event, I heard the business was for sale, I ended up running up to the lady at the end and saying I want to buy it. And you know, 15 years on I've really built into what it is today. I'm still as excited and juiced about what we can offer the world as I was 15 years ago. So you know, after being in the business for probably a decade or so actually that the origin of this story is interesting. I'm not telling you this, I think you already know this. But I think I'm not telling you. The reason. 

 

Tina:

 

I didn't ask you for the origin story is I think it's adorable that you like for anyone that doesn't know my backstory, I'm like, I don't think anyone that listens to my podcast wouldn't know.

 

Emma:

 

Of course they will. Of course they will. But you know, one of the really the toughest parts of my gig, my job and we have to get you along to this one day, but I get to run a leadership gathering or a conference on Necker Island every year. And I remember sitting up having breakfast, there are 25 of us there. And Richard was there more sipping on our fresh coconuts. And he was asking one of our members, what's your business? And she was explaining about her business in Australia. And he looked at her directly in the eye and he wasn't, he wasn't joking. And he was very considered in his response. He just said to her, wow, like, Is it possible to make money in Australia? And I just, I was kind of floored by that. I was like, wow, that's quite significant, for him. You know, business happens in North America happens in Europe, You know, business happens in North America happens in Europe, he does has business in Australia, but it's this tiny little country or continent that floats, in the southern hemisphere, and to him, that's not where you sort of make your mark, and I didn't say anything, but that just sort of planted a seed in my little mind. And I thought, you know, I have been cruising and I have been doing reasonably well. And I've reached a level of success in Australia. truth be told, if I'm being really honest with myself, I am not stretching myself and I'm not expanding in the way I'm trying to encourage everyone around me to expand. So that's why I picked up my little family. Well, I had four kids at the time and we flew to the US. we didn't really know anyone. My husband had an uncle who lived in La, but that was sort of the extent of our networks there. And just really got to work. I mean that the short the short story, or long story short, is that it was a total flop and a complete failure, you know, really tried to get business chicks off the ground here for a good probably 18 months before running entirely out of money, and energy. I was in a situation where my stream business, I'd put a CEO into the company, I'd put a great leadership team in a really left the, the Australian operation in the best of hands. And so I was in the situation of where I was sort of bleeding them dry of cash.  I had to sit in the discomfort of making a decision, do I keep on going? And I said, Do you think when you try the US are so much I mean, so much people? People say that, obviously, we are culturally we think we're culturally similar, you know, we speak the same language. we get all our pop culture from America, and we travelled to America all the time. But really, it's a very, in a lot of ways. It's a very, very conservative culture. we had challenges on brand on on the name, obviously. I mean, I just underestimated how much effort it would take to really get a business off the ground in the US and have to be very serious about that. And I was desperately underfunded, I should have probably raised money to get it going. a tonne of a tonne of lessons and mistakes.  you know, ultimately. 

 

Tina:

 

I have to do with the super cryptic story of the partnership that you nearly signed in the US in the book that you talk about super cryptic. Radio going? 

 

Emma:

 

Well, this is what was that? No, that was, it was a totally different thing at the time. I think there have been a tonne of advantages and benefits to being here. And in the process of all that failure and learnings and misfortunes, I've definitely found I love living here. I love the pace. I love the creativity. I love the people. And I know you've travelled here a lot. And we spent time together here but you know, I love the environment. I love the open mindedness and so those things, you know, those byproducts have been really useful in my own entrepreneurial journey and in the lessons that I'm able to help my stream business. Learn from.

 

Tina:

 

it's kind of when when business tricks didn't work out in the US what will stay here is that your forever home now? Or are you You're still saying, Hey, I just built the most gorgeous house true.

 

Emma:

 

We were lucky we we bought a house just and we bought a beautiful 100 year old house. Just before the what a year before the pandemic, we moved in the month before. We went to lockdown here. So that was all really fortuitous and amazing. we have an amazing life here. We've carved out a beautiful lifestyle. the kids have American accents.  we're very, very settled here. I feel very at peace and very at home here obviously, always if you if anyone has had expat living experience in it, you always pulled to home and there's definitely been many moments of home sickness, but pre pandemic, I was travelling back to Australia 5, 6,7,8 times a year managed to get back here in pandemic she's like some magician how she coming back and know that not only do I do one trip, it was good. I did the two weeks quarantine I did that with my my right hand and my baby the baby was I don't know how long it would have been, I think nine months or so. But it was actually it was beautiful. It's like, how often do you get to hide one on one with a sixth child? And have one on one time? Yes, it's amazing. I do like connect to Australia for two weeks inside, in jail and hotel quarantine and one week out. And yes, so that was good. That filled up my cup for a minute and I've been back here ever since. So I ended Look, I was meant to come back as you know, for this new book. And I was meant to tour and there was just no conceivable way that was going to happen. So, we'll see. November is the planned new date so yes, plan new dates or when the calendar or booked and everything but again, like we're at the mercy Right.

 

Tina:

 

And so then you have so which I'm super excited about. And I say to you before we hit record, I was like I think I should say that other but i will i think it kicks winging it’s arse I read it and I went This is good. It was right up my I think because a lot of the things that you talked about and and the things that I am working on actively at the moment and going right, so much better than this. But I think everybody is all the time. So it's really good. It's really good concept to do it first. The first question I want to ask you About It is did you write it when you were pregnant or with a newborn? Either way, it's hard.

 

Emma:

 

Yes, both. So the story with this book you know, I published my first in 2018 You and I were having a beautiful conversation before we hit record on this podcast episode but it continues to sell really well it was the highest selling business by biography of 2018. In the whole of Australia was the the highest internationally after Elon Musk, so he just beat me there. So that was a really beautiful foray into writing, you know, and very unexpected and a beautiful surprise, and people will continue to tell me that they get value from it. So when expected, when you say unexpected, was it unexpected? Or are you just humble? I mean, you know, me, I am hashtag humble, but I, also know, it was a surprise, you know, I didn't know what I was doing at all. I mean, I still don't really know what I'm doing. But, you know, I gave it my best shot. And, and, you know, it resonated and I was really, really grateful for that, you know, so I think the second time around you, you know, you're doing you know, we we stay with the same publisher, and we're very grateful for their input. I write every single word of my books, so I don't you know, there's no ghost writing or, or support like that. I probably wrote over 200,000 words. And that got down to about 60,000. The final? That's a lot of editing. A lot of editing. And probably not probably, this is the third iteration of a book I wrote. So I, you know, it was, it was a really interesting time, because I submitted the entire manuscript, whilst pregnant. They edited and sent it back to me. And I said, I absolutely hate this. So I started again. totally different concepts. Totally different concepts. Can you say what it was? Or you might write it again, later?

 

I honestly have five or six other titles on the go right now. And, bits and pieces. And, when I say write every single word of my books, I absolutely do. But I do work with, one of my team members, who's a really phenomenal structural editor. So, between me and her, it's this huge jigsaw puzzle of I will write a piece and then she will file it, and then she'll be like, that does not belong in the new hospital that belongs in.

 

Emma:

 

 You know, there's many, many other books coming out. I don't know. I mean, I don't enjoy the process of writing books at all. I find it completely torturous. I it's one of the hardest mental things I think you could ever do. Yeah, I mean, I think if someone you know, any entrepreneur who tries to sit still for a period of time and tries to modify my flow, used to snacking on content and snacking on, you know, meetings, and it's all just students very, very hard to see it and order your thoughts. And it's quite tedious, actually. So don't enjoy. But yes, I, I do enjoy the, the process. I hate the process, but I enjoy when people, I suppose echo back, hey, I learned this. And I feel like there's an impact there. Or hey, that really helped me with this problem I'm facing are Hey, that really set me on a different path, or Hey, and that's, that's a beautiful part. And you know that from your writing, you do get that feedback to it's not about me, I don't care if people say it's great, that doesn't, I have no interest in being validated for that. But if they learn something and take something for their business journey, then amazing. That's awesome. And I suppose I try and write, I don't waste any words,  And I suppose I try and write, you know, I don't waste any words, I try and get my point across really, really quickly. And, you know, people say that's, that's great. They appreciate that. There's, yeah, there's no time wasted. And and Michael kind of make my point, quickly.

 

Tina:

 

practically like energy wise, because you're the mom of six children, which is a lot of humans. How did you how did you get the brain space and the energy to go? You know what I'm going to because you've got to really, you said focus for hours at a time to get the book done. Did you go in and out each day? Or did you kind of take a chunk and go all in in a chunk of time?

 

 

Emma:

 

I mean, I think what might I mean, what my process is, when the kids so I have five, my kids range from 12 down to 15 months, I think a little guys. So I'm lucky that my 4,6,8,10 and 12 year old children go to school, so that's fantastic. So when they're out the door, I know I have to focus and get a good chunk of writing done. I don't necessarily write in chronological order. I don't go Okay, I'm up to I don't go Okay, I'm up to chapter two. And that's right. In chapter two. It's very piecemeal. And then I sit with my editor and go, Hey, we were exploring this theme. What do you think and she's say’s, you need to get him way more, meat to those bones. You need to make a case study meeting the story you need to the offshore question me and then right, so it's really just you're trying to get the work into pieces of a couple of hours at a time. And then yeah, as I ramp up to deadlines, and try, you know, the publishers sort of saying Kate needs to be submitted by this date. I will go to a hotel, I often just book a hotel room and sit and try and, write not just In the daytime, but at night time as well. It's like anyone would imagine that stealing moments where I can its inspiration does come when I'm in the shower. So you know, reach out and write a note on a piece of paper. But it's, it's just doing the best I can in every single moment. So it's not like I'm going to write a book in the next month, and I'm going to sit down and go away and go on a retreat doesn't work like that. It's like still the moment you know, get it out. I feel like you have to have a lot of discipline when you write, I don't know that I'm, I'm certainly not the best technical writer in terms of being that discipline, because I like to feel my writing. I like to, you know, when I have a moment or a thought or a feeling, or often, it'll be like, I'll go on a rant, and then sort of be like, you need to write about that. No one's talking about that. So then, okay, great. And then I'll go and write about it. But, I don't know. I mean, I don't know what your process was. But I hazard a guess it's very, very different for everyone. And you know, when you do have a have, any choice doesn't matter if it's six or two, like you're one or whatever, like it's it is stealing moments and doing your best in.

 

 

Tina: 

 

You've got to do what you've got to do at the time. Like my first book, I actually went to Fiji for a week and just immersed in it and smashed it all out in that week and did nothing other than sleep eating right. And I love yes, but this time I was in the pandemic, so it wasn't an option. And I found that way harder. I'm going by ever write a book again. I will take great personal sacrifice and take myself off to Fiji. It's very hard. So what made you settle on the new hustle?

 

Emma:

 

We went back and forth a billion times on different titles as I do with winging it, the first two words I wrote when I wrote my first book was winging it by what have five words winging it by Emma Isaacs, and then I, doubted myself and went back and forth with 100 titles, and, you know, came back to full circle with the initial one, the new hustle, I mean, I think I've got a bit of an obsession with the word hustle. And I think it's very, very outdated. I think, the hustling in the traditional sense, definitely measures input, and it measures how many hours and how much time you gave to a task, or, how many emails you wrote, or how many meetings you could not care less about any of that. And I think what the pandemic has certainly taught us is that, you know, the days of sitting at a desk all day, and commuting to offices, all of those practices, and all of those disciplines that we've come to accept as normal, are, are no longer than normal, right? So we can create this new way of being we can create a new way of working, we can throw out some of those old paradigms and really step into a new way of being right. So, I started thinking about hustling and how something is just such a word and how.

 

 

Tina: 

 

It's one of my favourite like, every time I hit hustle and grind, we work.

 

Emma:

 

I don't want to hustle that's so. So really, for me, this is an anti hustling book, but it's a nod too, there is a new way of doing things as a fresh way of doing things. I think what the past 18 months has taught us is that we do have choice and that we do need to interrogate why we do the things that we do. And we do need to interrogate the way things have always been done. And that ultimately, it's up to us to choose, what we want for our futures, and we want for our lives. And, to be proud and to have courage and stepping into that. So that's kind of how I landed on the title. I don't know.

 

Tina:

 

What do you say? So the reason I ask this is, so I know so many people, we're working through this at the moment where we kind of kind of switch into workaholism, and have to pull ourselves back and remember, just because you can, because you love Enough already. And I was having a zoom call with a group of business girlfriends last week. And we were all saying, what got us here won't get us there and go and get we've worked really hard and really purposefully. But burnout is across the board and going and the debate we were having, which I'd love your stance on it is, we resist the hard work. And now we want to make better choices and longevity and not have burnout and adrenal fatigue. But could we have started like that? Would it have been possible? Or do we need that hard work? At the beginnings? What's your distinction between, hard, purposeful work and hustle? And because I know you worked your tushy off at the beginning as well?

 

 

Emma:

 

I old hustled my way into and I wouldn't change a thing and I can only speak from my lived experience, you know, what I what was required of me when I was when I was very very young. So as I said, I started my first company at 18 right? So I had all the energy in that what I certainly was nowhere near thinking about family or energy that we could do that. Physically and biologically possible. Anything and you're way younger than me so shut up. You're not, Don’t lie. I'm 42 How old are you? 37 so you know, that's five years.

 

So, I don't believe that I would have gotten to where I am today without that level of dedication and drive and rigour and grit and, I was dogged, I would not give up. And I felt bulletproof. And, I had the energy to do it. And I'll always forever be grateful that I didn't get that start. While while I had all those resources around me, you know, what I will say, from studying some of the world's most successful people and being able to spend meaningful time with them, is at some point, they have had to step into really, really hard work. And you know, it's true when I say I've yet to meet as a successful lazy person, they just don't exist. I mean, we talk about, people who we admire, because I've mentioned necker before, I watch brands, and get up every single morning and play tennis for a couple of hours, and then be in a hammock and do is go, and you think, Wow, like I'm doing all this wrong, but you know, that that can be really, that that vision can be really misleading, because there have been many, many, many decades of, complete hard work and sacrifice and, nose to the grind efforts. So that's a really roundabout way of saying, I don't believe I could have I could be here today, if I had not applied myself in the ways that I've applied myself in the past. I don't want to do it anymore. I don't need to do it anymore. I didn't do it, because I had something to prove. But I feel very, very, very comfortable in my own skin. And I feel very, proud of where I'm at highs are getting older.

 

 

 

Tina:

 

I think it is going, what I don't have, I had a lot to prove to myself, not other people, but to myself was driven and the last few years is a full shift of going. 

 

Emma: 

 

Zero fucks given I honestly, agree. I agree. again, you haven't even turned 40. So you're such a baby. But there is just such a beauty that comes with relaxing into the fact that, it's cool. It's exactly how it's meant to be. And I'm doing my best in every moment. And that moment, sometimes I'm not doing my best in some moments. But, you know, overall, I'm really proud of you, and I can look myself in the mirror and say, you know, you're doing your best and that's great. And no one need ask anything more of you. And I think that's a beautiful way to live.

 

 

Tina:

 

Totally. Now, I read this line in the book that I want to read because I laughed out loud when when I read it and as I read it, but it's one of those ones that you go well, I legit laughed out loud. It's about talking about Liz Gilbert, Liz isn't shy about telling people that if she doesn't get back to their emails, it's not because she's busy. It's because she doesn't care.

 

But at what, in your journey, did you learn that you couldn't be all the things to everyone and start letting go of other people's perceptions of you?

 

Emma:

 

Oh, I don't think you ever kind of arrive there and go, right, old Em and this is new Em, and never shelter to ever meet again.  I mean, I think I worked really, really hard. In the early days, you know, maybe in my mid 20s, of protecting my time and really, understanding that time was my greatest asset, and then I needed to work out how to maximise it. So I think I sort of playing around with that very awkwardly in my mid 20s, So I think I sort of playing around with that very awkwardly in my mid 20s, you know, being able to practice saying no to certain asks of me, and, you know, whether it be an event to go to or someone to me as their mentor or, or whatever that that request was, so I did start playing around with it in my mid 20s. But yeah, I think it's a practice, right, like you practice it every single day and you find the courage to say no, when you find the courage to create boundaries, and to protect what's important to you, and what matters and, and what matters and, you know, I think it's, it's something that I'm still working on and still practising To this day, you know, there's, there's, there's emails in my inbox at the moment that I haven't got back to, because I have to say no to and I'm still you I'll find the moment you know, so I'm not for a second saying I'm an absolute I have, I'm pretty good at it. Like I have again, I apply myself to the practice and I really have improved a lot but I you don't arriving at that, you know, you still no matter who you are, and how far you've come you know you from my experiences. I want to be kind to people and do my best always. it sucks to have to turn people down and say no at times, but ultimately, if you want to be successful, you want to get ahead you'd like time is it you've got to protect it.

 

Tina: 

 

I think that's what that's why I love that this book so much is reading I haven't quite finished it yet. I got it on Monday. So I'm like halfway through because so many of the rules are around boundaries. And I think having boundaries and trying not to people please and learning the opportunities to say no to while going, you know, I don't want to say no and cut myself off from things because we want to say yes, and we've been working so hard and doing all that. It's one One of the hardest things and one of my favourite Oprah quotes is big open heart. Huge fucking fence. And when she said she said it was she goes on to I hear, and I was like, write that down. I love that Because to me, like having boundaries was was really hard to learn to do that and not feel like you're being an asshole or that people be like, because she's too big for a booth. She doesn't want to, I'm not worth her time anymore. How? How have you kind of coped with going? It's okay to say no, if someone else like you're always gonna say it with kindness. And I've known you for long enough. I think I've been a business chicks member. I tried to work it out the other day for like, 13 years. Yeah, it's well over 10 years. Yeah, that's my was my first event. And so I've seen you, and you've seen me, like through all of the different stages of all of the different businesses. And you do have that big huge heart and that huge fucking fence like you do that really, really well. But how have you How have you managed because I see you at events to where everyone wants a piece of you. Everyone's like, Oh, my God, you're lining out to talk to you. And you have to like, end that at some point? How have you maintained that big heart while going, you know, what, I need to protect my energy too, because I've got all of this other life going on? 

 

Emma: 

 

That's a it's a great question. I think. I think it's possible for the two to coexist, you can be kind and compassionate and giving and generous and also have boundaries for yourself and know that there's a space, it's sacred, and you need to protect that. And I actually think what we do is walk through life thinking that it's kind of binary, you know, I can only be generous and kind of giving up on myself or I can be a total recluse and an introvert and not give anything, right. So it's, it's the two can marry and they can coexist. I've spent my life trying to practice this of being generous, but also been kind to myself, and so I'm actually I'm actually I feel like just recently, I'm getting even better, just because I'm learning to be in stillness, I'm, you will laugh at me, and don't laugh at me, but I'm meditating every single day. And I'm just, I'm really, I don't know, I'm really still and I'm really feeling the power of, that being okay. And whatever it is, being okay. And I just love that practice. So I don't think it's been anything that's been the entirely conscious, like, oh, what could have got to give you such myself in a bit, I end the conversation and move on. the two can that they can live inside, you can be a lovely, generous, beautiful person. protect yourself at the same time. I'm not saying for a second that I get it, right, I often get the kind of balance of that off kilter. But I just, think if the intention is there, and you have integrity, then people can sense that, people sense that if you're full of bullshit, or if you're genuinely trying your best to do, yes, what you can and yes, I don't know. Does that answer it? A little bit?

 

Tina: 

 

Yes and I think that's good to hear, as well as that you can coexist those together. Because I know that's the big fear from all the women that I work with in going, if they say no to this, What will they think of me? Will they think I'm horrible?  It's always the fear and so women end up saying yes to everything, and then there's nothing left for themselves at

 

Emma: 

 

it's not just a fear, it's actually a reality. Right. So and I can say that from the point of view of working with American women and working with Australian women, there is a there's a cultural comfort over here of boundary setting of saying no, it's that there's no emotion, she doesn't like me, leaving what else is on? That's more important than me. It's just She said, No. Okay. Cool. And you move on? Yeah. So it's a very different culture in Australia. It's a lot more emotional. And we're in our heads and we overthink and we analyse and we over analyse, and you just gotta let that go. I don't know. I don't know what it is.

 

Tina:

 

I know that you've been meditating. I love meditating. I'm meditating every day. And I can't be laughed at at the moment because I'm nearly convert to peloton, and I'd like to do it and I deserve to be laughed at.

 

Emma: 

 

That's crazy. That's awesome. That was awesome. I don't do that at all. But I have an exercise bike that's on my balcony and I am not saying I know.

 

Tina:

 

Im in the cult of peloton. I'm there. I love it. Okay, so I want to ask you about social media as well, because so many of the rules that you have in your book and so for people you've got is it 70 how many rules 77 rules, but a lot of them do. Like weaving into boundaries and protecting energy and how you get more done in less time and more effective and focusing on what's important for you, which I love. And one thing that I find fascinating about you is social media and going you use social media when You need to, and then when you don't like, it's no part of my life and I'm like, gosh, nails it. How do you do that? 

 

Emma:

 

Oh my gosh, you need to talk to my team, my team think I absolutely categorically do not nail it.

 

Tina:

 

because you use it for what you need. When you need to talk about the book or when you need to talk about an event. You've got it there. And then other than that, it's just left. 

 

Emma:

 

I just have no interest. I think it comes back. But I have, I have no need to be for anyone to, people don't have no clue of what goes on in my life. And I don't feel the need for them to, I don't know, there is so much stuff that is sacred and private to me. And it's between me and my family and my dear friends and it's not for public consumption. I think we give so much of ourselves and we don't save. It's a sacred question to me. I just, I just don't feel the need to share everything. I don't share anything. In fact, I share like 5% of my life. And people say to me, oh my gosh, if people actually knew what was going on your life, they would lose it. they would actually not be able to cope with what happens in your life. well, that's great. But I'm not living my life for other people. You know, I'm living my life for me. And I don't feel the need to share that and express it on social media all the time. I don't go to social media. I don't numb myself through scrolling. I don't do that at all. I mean, I that's not to say I haven't in the past. But that doesn't go for just social media. I don't watch TV. I don't definitely don't want to at the moment. Oh, my gosh, yes, for sure. But, I mean, I would, I don't know how we have two TVs in this house. And I don't know how to turn on one of them. I don't even think it works. So, It's just not, it's not part of my life. And I think that has come from this weird obsession that I have with time and how we spend it and the study of that. So I do try and be mindful with what I'm doing in every moment. And if I find myself, if let's say, if I post them on Instagram, and then I go to scroll. And then I'm like, What am I doing? Why am I doing this? Yes. Why am I doing this Stop, stop. And, I do, I am pretty disciplined like that I'm pretty, I'm a bit like a bit hardcore with my discipline, so I can go down to anyway. And I was saying this, before I spoke to a friend of mine, like, I can go for two days without knowing when my phone is, it's weird, but I have so many kids that they will take it and, be watching something, and then they'll put it in the toy box, or they'll put it under a pillow. And I just played on my phone for two days. And I know I could use Find My iPhone if I really, really wanted to. But, you know, it's it's like, it's cool. I don't I don't need my phone.  it's, again, it's something I don't want to pick myself up as this person who has not had addictions, and being glued to my phone. And I certainly use it as a distraction from time to time, but it's just social media is something that I got very, very clear about, and it doesn't make me feel good to be scrolling all the time. So I just I try not do it. 

 

Tina: 

 

I love that. So what is your day to day look like now with? How involved? Are you with the Australian operations of business check. So you have this changed since the pandemic?

 

Emma: 

 

I mean, it has, it's more changed because our CEO was on her maternity leave, or parental leave. So, for those six or so months I was quiet hands on. And, we needed to be I mean, a huge part of our business was swept away, when all the restrictions came into place. I think you've read this part in the book, it was it was a fantastic opportunity to return to being like the scrappy entrepreneur I was, I grew up in business being right, like just the person who would not schedule things and would just be in the moment and would try and read a room and try and understand what our members needed. And, you know, met them at that level. So, for me, it was fantastic for a lot of the people in the team who like to schedule and like to plan everything out six months in advance, having all that thrown away, and me having a saying, It's not possible. So stop talking about it. We don't know, we don't know what's happening next week, let alone in six months time. So we have to change that way of working, and be here and be now and yet kind of look at things that way. So yeah, so during the pandemic, it happened to coincide my CEOs, parental leaves, so I was very, very hands on. I was also 400 weeks pregnant during that time. It felt like so that was all good. And but I've yet stepped back a little bit more now that she's back in the seat and doing a fantastic job. this tender and you and I have talked about this before, but like, in a lot of ways I feel very, very privileged and very grateful to be living. Like the entrepreneurs dream, I have a business that I don't need to be operational in and, you know, which does well every month and, affords me the space to think of other things and to yes, just work at a different level than being you know, always on every single day and so on.

 

Tina: 

 

It is the dream and I also know you're always working on something, though. What is what's the next big goal for you? And when we used to be able to see each other all the time, I know you always spoke about seven kids, is there a seven? Because you may like pregnant or breastfeeding for 12 years?

 

Emma:

 

When you put it like that, it sounds like a lot. No, there won't be a seventh child. I don't I think it would be entirely unreasonable, I think, I don't know. I mean, it's been a really interesting time, not being able to be distracted with all the things that we used to distract ourselves with, right. So you know, I alluded to it before, being able to kind of have a break and go to Australia for a week or two, was a way that I coped with the pace of, my life as a mom of six kids and the businesses that I've built. When you take away those kind of distractions, and you're left with a wall, this is the enormity of the task in front of you. And now go home. Breakfast time. Breakfast is crazy, man. It's crazy. But where where were we find? a lot of my friends come over. I have friends who have two kids in the house are more chaotic than this, it's somehow mostly kind of works. breakfast is breakfast is fine. I mean, they're back in school. Now. We had the tremendous summer break of 11 or 12 weeks, and they're back in school now. So the two big weapons are out the door first, and the three next ones go to the same school. And then the little guys at home. So it's okay, it's fine. I don't even know what your question was what we're talking about the next big goal that you're working on? I mean, I'm not sort of, I don't know, I think I've changed my wiring like that. 

 

Tina:

 

I remember when we were in Uganda. And we were talking and we were talking about plans. this is my 10 year plan. And then this the five year and this is for a year, and then this is broken down into one years. And I was like, Oh, you don't know. And you're right. I didn't know. But I'm not being like that so much. Because I know that. If when I was like that I missed a whole lot of opportunities, because I was so tunnel visioned on, this is just where I'm going not looking sideways at anything. But then I missed all these amazing things. Some of them be now. I know, that's where you're coming from where I'm like, okay, what's next?

 

Emma:

 

I think I'm even more relaxed now than I was perhaps back then. There's a bit in the book, I talk about this, and it's care of our friend Liz Gilbert, and she says something along the lines of, you know, let your life surprise you. And, I love the idea not knowing and I love your practice of trying to be in the uncertainty. And I think the pandemic was a really great litmus test for a lot of us, to relinquish that control, and to really try and step into that. the enormity of the not knowing, and I love that I've been practising that for a while. So I don't really have I don't really have a huge, next goal. I mean, I've got lots of projects in the works, but I'm really content and I'm really happy. And that's not to say my ambitious, but I try and go about my business, in with ease and grace, like we were we talked about before, just ease and grace, ease and grace. I know, and I trust that opportunities will come up. And I know when I trust that I'll be able to meet them or I'll be able to say no to them. And I love that I just love being able to live my life that way. And for me, it brings a certain level of hope, know of comfort. And yes, I will often say you know, more of the same, just more of the same. yes,

 

Tina:

 

I love that this book is a work of art. I love it. I really, really do. And I think it's going to be so helpful to so many people no matter what level you're at. It's very thought provoking, and at the end of every little rule It made me stop and go, Hmm, how am I going with that one? Hey, I need to change that. it's really good. So thanks, everyone. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Love you. Thank you for listening to this episode of Her Empire Builder. If you loved it, please share it on Instagram and Facebook for your friends. And if you really want to deliver me a smile, you can pop a review on iTunes. I'd love to hear from you. So if you have any questions, email me at podcast at tinatower.com if you want to know more about what we do, head over to tinatower.com Now I truly hope this podcast gives you so much value and you can use it to dream big and plan well and take massive action in building your very own Empire. That's perfect. Just for you.