THE PODCAST FOR ONLINE COURSE CREATORS GOING BIG!
Join business strategist Tina Tower as she explores how to build your empire by packaging your expertise into online courses, speaking, content, podcasting and credibility.
Tina has over 17 years of experience in starting, building and selling companies, she's a speaker, teacher, mama and world traveller.
She's unapologetic about living an intentionally big life and if you want too, this show is designed to show you many different options to help you gain clarity over YOUR version of awesome.
- To know your goals is to know your passion.
- Use your expertise to make a difference.
- Be experimental and don't be too afraid.
- Know how to take action on what you want to pursue.
OUR PODCAST GUEST - KELLY BELL
Kelly is a passionate educator with 18 years experience as a PDHPE & Community & Family Studies (CAFS) teacher. Kelly has presented workshops across NSW in PDHPE & CAFS and in Australia on teaching pedagogy. She has taught CAFS since 2004 growing the course from about 15 students to over 60 students in a small all-girls school and then spent 2.5 years teaching CAFS at a senior high school. She has dedicated her career to working with government and community organisations to support the development of teachers and their students through professional learning, webinars, resource development, marking and mentoring. Kelly started supporting the professional learning of teachers in 2010 where she held voluntary roles in a professional learning organisation and served on the Board from 2014-2016 and President in 2016-2018. Her contributions to the organisation was recognised by the Professional Teachers’ Council NSW in 2014 for her work where she received an Outstanding Professional Service Award as an acknowledgment of excellence in the profession. Her commitment to supporting teachers to be the best educators they can be was further developed when Kelly completed a Master in Educational Leadership from the Australian Catholic University in 2015 and when she became a Google Level 1 Educator in 2020. Since starting The Learning Network in 2020 Kelly has supported over 1000 CAFS teachers across NSW in online courses, resources, coaching & mentoring and 1000s of CAFS students in her Year 12 CAFS MasterClasses. Kelly is surrounded by the beach, bay and bush on the sunny Central Coast of NSW, Australia where she delivers massive support to enable teachers to connect, learn and grow together.
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[0:0] Hello, and welcome to episode 180. Today, I have another very inspiring member interview for you. So I love Kelly's story. Starting a career in teaching obviously has its perks in course creation where we're educators already. But I love the story of reinvention. And so many members that we have in Her Empire Builder started out their journey and across creation with so much skill and expertise in whatever area they've come from. But they're thinking, like, I wonder if cost creation is for me? And how big can I actually go? And will this replace or exceed my wage that I am used to? And it makes me so happy to see that happen? For people to see like that, that moment of going, Gosh, like, Can I do this? Is this possible for me, and then to see them implement everything and take that courageous action and to see people grow and adapt, and then of course, inspire everyone around them. And that is Kelly's story. She has taken a really fine niche in her area of teaching, and turned that into a six figure online business. And in today's episode, we're sharing with you how she got started, because she hasn't been going for all that long. And what she's created in that short amount of time is incredible. But she's put in the work. And so she's going to be sharing what she actually did, and everything that she's learned along the way and what's worked and what hasn't, and what was easy and what was hard. And I know that you're going to get so much out of that.
[1:58] So a little bit about Kel. You can find her on Instagram @kellybell.coach and you can find any links from today in the shownotes at tinatower.com/180. And of course, if you want to join us in her Empire Builder go to herempirebuilder.com doors are opening on the fifth of September. So if you jump on the waitlist now you'll be able to get access to some really cool exclusive bonuses just for weightlifters and a little bit of early access there too. So if you're thinking about it, go and jump on herempirebuilder.com .
And let's get into Kelly's bio. So Kelly is a passionate educator with 18 years experience as a PD HP and Community and Family Studies teacher. She has presented workshops all across our home state of New South Wales and across Australia and teaching pedagogy. She has taught calf's Community and Family Studies since 2004. Growing the course from about 15 students over 60 students in a small all girls high school and then spent two and a half years teaching at a senior high school. She started supporting the professional learning of teachers in 2010, where she held voluntary roles as a professional learning organization and served on the board. Her commitment to supporting teachers to be the best educators they can be was further developed when Kelly completed a master's in educational leadership from the Australian Catholic University in 2015, and then became a Google level one educator in 2020. Since starting the Learning Network, which is her business she's running now in 2020. She has supported over 1000 Community and Family Studies teachers across New South Wales in online courses, resources coaching and mentoring and 1000s of cast students in her year 12 Cavs master classes, Kelly is surrounded by the beach Bay and Bush on the sunny central coast of New South Wales, where she delivres massive support to enable teachers to connect, learn and grow together. She's also a very valued member of Her Empire Builder and is so wonderful to have as part of our community. And I'm so happy to share with you Kelly's journey today. Let's get into it.
[4:20] Hi, friend. I'm Tina Tower business strategist and digital online Empire Builder. I've been in business since I was 20 years old and I've since built and sold for businesses. I started in the world of online courses in 2017 and grew to a seven figure annual turnover in just under two years. To say I love the game of business is an understatement. I'm a world traveler, a mama, a wife, a best selling author and I love the freedom that we have to create the business and life that we want to live. It takes courage to break the rules and shake things up and do it your way. Through Her Empire Builder.I share my experience and bring you Lessons from some of the world's best to help you dream big, plan well and take massive action. It is absolutely possible to run a thriving, growing business that positively impacts the world and have a beautiful personal life without hustling and working yourself into exhaustion. I want that for you. Let's enjoy the journey my friend.
[5:26] Hello, hello, how are ya? Good, sir. Good. Okay, what I would love to get Is today your whole story on the evolution of your online business and how you went from a classroom teacher to this amazing very niched online business boss.
[05:48] Alright, strapped, everyone might take me a little while. But as Tina mentioned, I left the classroom. So I left the classroom just after COVID hit. So July 2020, was actually was when we went back to school. And I was just feeling the pressure of so much other people than anything in leadership. Rather than the students. It wasn't the kids, it was never about the kids. I still do miss being with the students, but I haven't you taught master class sessions every year. So I get to kind of have that fix of, you know, we're still working with students. But so left in July of 2020, I had no idea what I was going to do. And I started to ponder on quite a few different things. I thought, oh, maybe teacher wellbeing, that's really important. But I thought, well, you know, there's this whole space of professional learning that teachers need to have, it's a requirement part of their teaching. So I thought, well, I've got something literally in the back of my pocket that I could use to, to use straightaway. And that's what I went to. So I go to his community Family Studies. I'm a PHP teacher. I've been teaching for 16 or 18 years now, really, but I left the classroom and I dove into, you know, social media tried to try to deliver what I kind of knew that my teachers might want and need. So at first, I literally had no idea I was listening to every podcast under the sun, doing lots of little courses on social media and marketing. And I don't know, because I had been working in, in our space for a really long time, I was a president of a non for profit organization, working with teachers on professional learning. I run, you know, workshops and presenting. I'm the author of two textbooks. So I think people kind of knew me anyway. So when I kind of, I'm launching this business, they're like, oh, okay, well, that's great. We've kind of heard from you for the best part of 12 years before and lots of different things. So I don't know, I've literally dove right in. And my first my very first course was connected to an assignment that I paid to have to do as part of their curriculum. And I, a colleague, had a lot of bosses left the classroom. So he started kind of said, I'll do like a three part webinar series and then launch, you know, your first course off the back of that.
So did you know at that time, like what a webinar series was?
Oh, no. I had no idea. And I said today, and I said, Okay, so what do I do is
You know, so listen to, you know, lots of podcasts, you know, and like I said, I had no idea, but I thought, okay, I know how to use Zoom. I'm pretty good with technology. I'm not afraid of it. I'm just gonna kind of dive right in and give it my best shot. And look, I think the third webinar series was kind of like the, you know, the launch pad to the course. And I had 85 Teachers turn up. And I was like, What a start. Okay, so this might work. Instead of be the beach every day, I might actually have a business and I can actually run. So. Also, when
do you first started? What like, what were your goals when you first got started? And how has that changed over the last couple of years?
Yeah. So I think my goals, when I first started, I thought, well, what's something that's going to, you know, bring me passion and bring me something that I love and allow me to have that balance in my life each teaching doesn't allow so, you know, I know that you have friends that are teachers, and you you know, you started primary education. Yeah. You know, it's, it's not, you know, and it has been brought to the forefront with COVID and teacher shortages. It's not just a typical nine to three job where you have the best holidays in the world. There's so much more than that. So I think I wanted that balance back. I was in a leadership position before I left the classroom. So I was leaving home at like quarter seven, not seeing my girls, not taking them to school, not going to school events. Or if I did, I'd like to race across the coasts, be there for 20 minutes and hightail it back to work in home at five o'clock and all the admin stuff that happened after that when you know when I went to bed, so I wanted to To design a life of, you know, a life of my dreams, I suppose, and I did. It's funny you say that I kind of did dream of doing this when I was in the classroom, there are a few things I kind of started to do. You know, during COVID, with my, just with my resources, I kind of went well, I'm going to make these in, you know, a pink and an aqua and then my brand colors now, because I love those two colors. And I don't know, I think I just want to say that was that had the balance, but also, that I could use all of my expertise and make a bigger difference with my, with my teachers, rather than, you know, having to toxic women at the school, I was working at fighting for my time and, you know, burning me out and contributing to me kind of, you know, getting sick night sort of stuff, I could actually go well, I'm going to teach people who actually care and who actually want to make a difference with their kids.
[10:50] So when you did go out, and you did that first webinar series, and you're like, Okay, there's 85 people here, like, what were your expectations? Was it something that you were like, at the beginning, we'll just see how this goes? Or were you like, I've got to hurry up and replace my teaching income? What was kind of the plan for that?
[11:07] I'm gonna be honest, and you know, that's just me. But we were in a very good financial position, we moved from Sydney to the Central Coast, my husband has, you know, funding business. So the financial thing, the pool wasn't there. So I didn't kind of go, I have to make these and I have to do that. I was like, slow and steady at the beginning. Let's see how it goes. And I think now that's evolved on Michael, what else? What else can our help, you know, on the larger scale, as you mentioned, my niche is very, very small. I have, you know, 1200 people on my mailing list. 970 Something teachers, my Facebook group, you know, 67 members, there's probably about 1200 calves, teachers in New South Wales, which is community Family Studies. I'm like, Well, I'm not just the calves teacher, I've taught PHP for the best part of, you know, 16 years. And there's so many other under that under that umbrella. So, I think,
[12:02] I think it's so inspirational, for people to hear your story, because you've got a really small niche, like what you just said, there's not that many, but you've just hit six figures in your digital business, which is amazing, congratulations. But, you know, with those numbers that you've got, you've got 1400 on your mailing list. I think a lot of people when they start think that they need these, like 1000s and 1000s and 1000s, I was talking to someone who's new into Her Empire Builder the other day, and she was really disappointed, because in her first webinars, she wanted 5000 people, and I'm going 5000 people, that's a lot of people, like no one gets 1000 people this star. And so I think the expectations that you need, these ginormous numbers in order to run a profitable business are a little bit skewed. So can you like share a little bit about, you know, the building of those numbers, and that you did hit that critical mass, kind of without having 10s of 1000s of people?
[13:01] Yeah, so I think, for me, it was putting, because, you know, small niche, but putting lots of different things. I thought, Okay, well, my youth, you know, very new teachers, they can come in my experience teachers, they can kind of come in and having lots of little diverse offers within my main umbrella. So, so far, I haven't stayed away from me in Family Studies at all. I am at a point where Michael, what else you know, I ambitious and driven and I think that's that peak PE kind of person in me and just, you know, that competitiveness. So Michael, I can kind of, you know, take that next step. But I think for me, it was going well keep an eye on my numbers, but don't get too hung up on it. You know, Instagram followers, all that sort of stuff you always talk about all the time. It doesn't. Yeah, I mean, people follow you. It is what you're, you know, what you're delivering and what's in, you know, you know, what you're offering? I think for me, it was just just building slowly, but also going account within my kind of system. Where else can I bring them in? So I've had my membership. That's another layout that I've brought in at the end of last year, the conference resource booklet. So low cost offers have really been a bit of a winner for me, but just little bits, Okay, what else for my niche, rather than kind of branching out.
[14:15] And with that ascension model, because again, it's something that evolved over the the time, you didn't start with all of those things in there. And so when you started with her Empire Builder would make you are actually quite early on in your cost journey. And it was a significant thing for you to go, you know what, I'm going to put this expensive and I'm going to do it even though you hadn't got the runs on the board yet. How did you deal with that in terms of people? Were you always backing yourself where you're like, you know, I can do this or was there a bit of the underlying fear there or what was the feeling of that? Yeah,
[14:53] Yeah, I and I've said this before to a lot of our members that I kind of dove in straightaway, you know, head first or feet first. I'm not really sure. But I'm the sort of person that you know, I'm a worker, oh, they always have been very driven. But I kind of, I'm like, just like, well, I'll do it and see what happens kind of thing. Again, not not being too hung up on the result and not getting to know if I don't do this isn't going to happen, but just be really experimental and open and not to kind of afraid, you know, obviously, there are points where I think, you know, who am I? I still don't call myself a businesswoman. Yes, I still call myself a teacher. And I think that's something I need to let go of, you know, we're all teachers,
[15:43] I think it can be that and that, like, we are teachers, we're in online education. But oh, you are a businesswoman. And yes, I'm gonna get you a little sign made. Kelly Bell?
[16:00] Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, just experimental and not being too afraid of it. And I don't know, I think they're just my personality, just give it a go. See, what happens if it doesn't work? Who cares kind of thing? I've learned from it. pretty resilient. So,
[16:13] yeah, and what's been the hardest part? Like, has there been one part in the last couple of years that you're kinda like, you know, you knew you needed to take that level up, or you knew you needed to do a thing that you were feeling that resistance to that you had to really work through to get over?
[16:29] I kind of, I don't think there's any been too many resistance, I think, the energy of live law, I think, for me, the biggest frustration is that I know that I have something that a lot of people don't have in our niche, or in our teachers don't have my experience in my, in my expertise. And I see it. And the unfortunate thing, there are lots of, you know, there's lots of red tape the schools with payments and teachers been released and, and money and time and all that sort of stuff. So my teachers want to be part of literally everything that I've kind of created, but they have so much resistance from schools to let teachers learn what they learn so that I suppose that's something that really frustrates me a lot. So teachers say no kill, I want to join that cause it's gonna make a complete difference with my, my teaching forever, not just now, but you know, in the next 15 years, but schools won't release them or schools will say no, that's too expensive. When you know, I know the value is phenomenal and so do my teachers but your school that that resistance from that higher power, I suppose. But look, I do have teachers that do pay for either my courses, my membership, my resources themselves, which is, yeah, just that dedication, I think from teachers. I think social media, I'm not too scared of at first freaked out by you know, doing a live going face to camera, but I've got over that pretty quickly. I don't know, yeah, nothing too much. I think that the bulk of emails probably can kind of become a bit overwhelming. But I'm a bit of a storyteller. So I like to, I do like to write our launch emails, and I usually launch four times a year, I have different courses that I learned that I launched each term. So yeah, just tweaking those and I don't know, just, you know, it's a little bit of an experiment. And as long as I'm having fun, and, you know, making a bigger difference, and I don't get too stressed out about it.
[18:19] Yeah. And I know that like you mentioned it at the start, too. I know the thing that you're most proud of, of creating with your business is, you know, getting to have that flexible life and getting to create that life that you wanted to leave but what does that look like for you?
[18:35] So looks like like I said, taking out you know, our dog, we've got two we've got a puppy now. So taking our two dogs for a walk. I live on you know, the beautiful central coast killcare But we're surrounded by the most amazing beach and Bay and borscht having that balance, you know, going to every single event that our kids do, I think I had to count the other day I was doing this but we had I had eight days mainly Fridays and I was at you know the girls school be sporting events open classroom. We went to the snow for two weeks went all through familia week with the Empire Builder and pathology so having that flexibility at my my business is working around my life not you know, my my life has been run by my work. And I think it looks different. You know, I have my membership master classes, you know, once every I have it three times a turn on a Thursday night so at eight o'clock, you know I kind of come down and I get ready for that and I know I'm genuine and my girls have just gotten used to that. Yeah, and that that's I'm working okay, mom's working I think they're still like still sometimes I can see it in the corner but I'm and I'm presenting or they're writing notes you know, like girls I'm actually working though they're writing go Mom. They want something like for me to do something for them. But I don't know just having that balance and I think I'm sharing this with a friend of mine on her podcast. And I was talking about that the time, I really love a time and a space to create. I've always loved creating really good lessons and even like, you know, our social media stuff, our emails, but just having that space and that time to really kind of go deep with things. And also, the sounds a bit bad, but just having that, that space away from people, you know, people sometimes drain you and I think, being in education for so long. Like I said, it was never the kids teachings. It's so noisy and it's it's fun, and it's exciting. But the people that you work with often bring you down. And I think for some reason teaching has that competitive drive, I have no idea why it's not a business, and we're educating the future. But I think just that that time for me to kind of get stuck into things is, you know, a complete blessing. And I wouldn't, I would never go back to school. I wouldn't go back to the classroom because of that.
[20:58] I completely agree. I mean, my favorite, like I'm an introverted extrovert or an extroverted introvert, I don't know which way around it supposed to go. But I quite enjoy people when I'm with them and doing all that. But I if I have my preference, I love being alone, creating things in my office doing all of that. And I do think that online business is an introverts dream, like, it's actually something that I think would be a very difficult business to run if you are extroverted because most of the work is the unseen, most of the work is sitting by yourself and creating. So that's yeah. What is your favorite thing about being part of Her Empire Builder, because you're such a good cheerleader inside of our membership as well.
[21:47] Um, it's hard to put my finger on one thing, but I think just the people, I know that we've just had a conversation about being, you know, being solitary. But I think just, look, we're in online education, but nothing beats a live event. So we went to Noosa, last year, my first year, and I literally kind of pay for Newser before I actually paid for her Empire Builder family that happened. And then obviously, all the way through, and you know, you offered women's online conference, which it wasn't part of that. But I think just being with people and the sense of community that you have built within her Empire Builder is second to none. And you know, when I first started, in the online space, I literally did every course under the sun. I did in America, and Australia based one here, and I don't know, I think just that sense of community. And, you know, as I said before about that, that completely jive that you're not against each other, you're working towards and working and supporting each other, and we can be ourselves. And, you know, I love the conversations we have in our private Facebook group where people say, give me some feedback on this, or I'm struggling with that. And, you know, you do have people that to cheer you on. And that doesn't, that doesn't happen in I don't think many industries where people are literally there to support you, you know, with your highs and your lows. I think that's, I think closer people and you know, obviously being, you know, led by you and your expertise and your energy and your, you know, your your, your drive to help everybody as much as you can, you're so beautiful.
[23:15] And it's I mean, we were talking about it this morning with a few of the members in going even with for a lot of ambitious women, they can be the only one in their friendship group or in their local area that that a lot of us are used to being different and the oboe that it is actually really nice and comforting to have a group where you know, you're going through the same issues and problems with being highly driven and a working mom or whatever it is that we have all of these similarities and can be like, oh, yeah, how do you deal with that? Okay, great. Let's go. Yeah, so I can my final question for you, Kelly is what is on the horizon for you now that you've got kind of I know a lot of people the goal when they start out is is like it's an arbitrary figure, but is that six figures to kind of and in my mind, once you reach that, it's proven you've proven it can work and then it's just all growth and scalability and doing all of that so you've created that now you've proven to yourself it works. What what are you aiming for over the next couple of years?
[24:23] Question. I think I'm getting out of my box, getting out of my comfort zone with the course that I know literally every single facet of that curriculum, but I think going okay, well I've I'm recognized as a leader in PT HP or hills in physical education, across not just like not just in New South Wales, but Australia. So I need to kind of get out of that bubble that I have, you know, built in community family studies because you know, people just kind of say to me, I hate this expression, but kills the cat scary. She's a cast clean, but I want to kind of be known for more than that because I think you know, anything that um, teachers kind of take inside all of my offerings, my courses, my resources are things that have really shaken up the way they have done, you know, their themes. And, you know, they say, you've completely changed my career, or you've made my life so much easier. And I think, well, if I can support more teachers like that, then you know what's next. So I think for me, it would be kind of going well, we have an umbrella, you know, health and physical education across Australia, and possibly kind of offering more resources and courses for teachers in that space. And I think for me, it would be a membership where teachers feel supported, they feel like, it doesn't matter what you're teaching, you know, or where you're teaching in Australia that we're all kind of, you know, we're all PE teachers, and there's so much more to running out in the field or showing kids how to play sport, it's really about that health. And I think I became a teacher to make a bigger difference in the lives of young people. And I think there are so many of us across Australia who, you know, we love sport, but we also care about, you know, the health of our young people in Australia. So I think being able to give back to that would probably be my kind of dream. So I suppose using what i've what I've created for communion Family Studies, teachers, but then going, Okay, well, what's it going to look like on a larger scale? How am I going to support more? You know, even more teachers across Australia? That would be my goal. Yeah. And obviously offering, you know, different things within that. But I think, you know, I'm having face to face events, conferences, and that type of thing would also be like a liberal mass. Yes. Because, you know, live events are awesome, um, that real connection with people is, you know, second to none, if no, I love, you know, Zoom sessions with my, my masterclass sessions and coaching. It's just yeah, just been with people, it used to be different. So, yeah.
[26:51] Now, I do have one more question, because you just said something, then that I was like, I really do want to ask you that actually, in going, excuse me, from a strategy point of view. A lot of the people in Her Empire Builder have high price like high ticket offers, but for you with your audience, and we've probably got, I reckon we're about a third or third that have low cost, and then about two thirds that kind of go right up in the ascension model in there. Can you tell us about your strategy in adding in like smaller offers, so that you could do higher volume and how you came up with going actually, I think I need to add multiple products in there, because a lot of what we do is less is more, but
[27:35] for you more is more? Yeah, so I explained, you ask this question, because last night, I reached my 30 capacity products in Kajabi. So it's like, oh, no, okay. Yeah. So I'm kind of at a, from a Kajabi perspective, I was like, kept at that. So I kind of have to upgrade to the next plan. And I thought, well, I don't need three users, I don't need, you know, six websites, I just need more products. So there's, you know, there's a little bit of an upgrade within Kajabi to have more products. And I think, you know, my low cost offers are a way to support the time, energy and well being of teachers, many of us know, you know, during COVID, we got to see as parents, you know, and the wider community got to see what it is really like to teach these beautiful people with all the complexities they have and all of the emotions and hormones and kind of charge these beautiful bodies. And I think, for me, it has always been about what can I do to make, you know, a bigger difference with my teachers to really, you know, get them back into doing what they what they what they do well, and that's teaching, you know, get rid of the admin get rid of a lot of the planning, and help make their life a bit easier. So for me, it was going, Okay, well, I think I started with some revision cards at first and went, okay, that's a bit of a no brainer, and all of my low cost offers have been no brainers for teachers just to save their time and, you know, hours and hours upon hours of time developing resources, but then going, Okay, well, okay, I can do some revision booklets and and then some, you know, curriculum materials for them. really practical things that they can actually use within their classroom and also add to their own teaching. So, you know, might be my perspective on a different activity, but they can kind of use what they've already got in their toolbox. And I can supplement that I suppose.
So I've always said like, with my resources, they're never like a replacement for the teacher or the teacher. They just have been that next step. So it was kind of going well. I've seen the success with these other you know, these first little things with revision materials. Okay, what else do teachers need? So, I'm at a point where I've almost kind of finished pretty much the whole curriculum for Community and Family Studies. There's a couple of other little booklets we have a few options, so kind of going well. If I make it really a low you know, a low price $47 for literally every single one of them. It's a no brainer teachers coming I know what to expect. That kills resources gonna be 47 dollars. They're a PDF that I've developed in Canva. And they can use that within, within their classes with their kids. And it's funny, some teachers say, Oh, can I actually share this with my kids? I'm like, Yeah, this is for the kids. This is for the students. So really cool things. And I think, you know, for people who are in the online space, looking at things that can supplement that their higher ticket items, and like you said, teachers are never going to pay $1,000 a month to me unless I was actually and this is something that I have been pondering on about supporting teachers leaving the classroom. I'm going to do this anyway. That's another nother story. But
[30:35] It’s for later yes. But I think that's a beautiful lesson in going like what you've done really, really well from the beginning is very simply what do your teachers need, and give them what they want. That's really been your whole business model is going where are the gaps there and identifying that and going here it is on a silver platter. And you've done that so incredibly well. You are an inspirational businesswoman. Kelly. Thank you so much for sharing your story I can't wait to cheer you on over the next couple of years inside her Empire Builder. And it sounds like you know that you're going to be growing the coaching business as well as all of the teaching resources. So there's so many exciting things to come. Congratulations.
[31:20] Thank you. Thank you so much.
[31:23] Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Her Empire Builder. If you loved it, please share it on Instagram for your friends. And be sure to tag me at @tina_tower so I can say thank you. And if you really want to deliver me smiles, you can pop on review on Apple podcasts. I would love to hear from you. So if you have any questions at all, email me at podcast at tinatower.com. And if you would like to work with me further, all of the free resources and my courses can be found at tinatower.com. Now I truly hope this podcast gives me so much value, and you can use it to dream big plan well and take massive action in building your very own empire. That's just for you. Have the greatest day