Ep132 Heather Sager - Shining on Stage through Speaking 

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Show Transcription: 

Speaking live is something that so many of us struggle with. It's usually not a natural skill. And today's guest is going to tell us all about how we can forget about the nerves, step into our power and spread our message through our voice while serving people as well. So Heather Sager is an absolute champion, and I can't wait to bring you this conversation. But there's, can I tell you, tomorrow is the launch day for my book, Million Dollar Micro Business. So if you haven't already get to your nearest bookstore, or Amazon or Booktopia, and order a copy of the book, and I would love to see you on my book to our tinatower.com/tour. If you are in Australia, or New Zealand, come out and say hi. We can meet in real live. Alright, enough of the promotion, let me help you be a speaking superstar.

When I got started in the world of Kajabi, and online courses, I was actually building people's Kajabi websites for them. And Heather Sager was one of those first clients and to see how far she's come in a couple of years into the superstar that she always was, but has used speaking as a vehicle to help other entrepreneurs shine is absolutely incredible. And she's one of the most intriguing and nice, fabulous women I have ever met. So I'm really happy that I've got her here to share some gems with you today. And today we're going through well, it's kind of like a double pronged episode, because we're going through her online course journey, and how she's worked from a business point of view, but also, oh my gosh, she dropped the gems with how to calm your nerves and speak with confidence, why you need to work on getting good at speaking how to get invited onto stages, and so so much more. So Heather Sager is a speaker and an online business coach. She's the creator of Speak Up to Level Up. She helps entrepreneurs structure their ideas, clarify their message and hone their speaking skills so that they can deliver magnetic live presentations, videos, and workshops that grow their authority. Something we all need in this thought leadership space. She's spoken on stages around the world teaching six and seven figure business owners how to grow their businesses using effective communication. Before starting her company, she was an executive at a top management firm in healthcare. Heather lives in Portland, Oregon, with her husband and two young sons. And to check her out you can go to heathersager.com which is a gorgeous website if I do say so myself. And you can follow her on Instagram @theheathersegar. Alright, let's get straight into it. You are going to love this one. Heather Sager, Welcome to her Empire Builder!

Heather

I am so excited to be here, Tina, thanks for having me.

Tina

I know every time I talk to you I go, I could just talk to this woman all day long. So…

Heather

Likewise, likewise, we have to watch the clock. 

Tina

Like I try to keep like 30 to 40 minutes and sometimes it just completely blow out and go, Oh, no!

Heather

There goes, there goes Monday. 

Tina

All right. So give us in a nutshell where you're up to doing life and business right now?

Heather

Okay, the nutshell thing right now life in business. So first and foremost, I am a mom and I have two littles at home, a six year old and a three year old so my life is consumed with I wouldn't say arguing but like convincing slash persuasion. I get a lot of communication skills practice at home. So that's a big bulk of my job, especially working from home balancing that piece. But my main gig if you will, is I get to coach online entrepreneurs how to get better speaking on cameras and podcasts like this and just get more confident sharing their message in a really strategic way.

Tina

Yes. And so we met right at the beginning of your online journey, which I love, you were like, you know, you were the superstar speaking coach, but going, how do I package that into online and you've just like absolutely flown with it, which has been so beautiful to watch, how's that journey been in going, getting something that was so offline and then packaging it into the online service that you have now?

Heather

It's so fun because right the rear view mirror, we can tell these beautiful origin stories that sound so well curated and life perfectly led us do these moments which we can talk about my beefy with origin stories later. But for me, my background is Corporate America, but a very weird subsection of corporate America where I told the line in entrepreneurship and corporate. And what I mean by that is, I worked for an entrepreneur who built this company that we became a corporate company with, I don't know, 250 employees, we served 2000 employees all over the country. But we worked with independent doctors. So I work with entrepreneurs all over the country, but I technically worked in a corporate environment. So have this like wonderful toeing the line of that. So I got to learn a lot about entrepreneurship. And I taught these doctors sales, I taught them leadership, how to lead and develop teams. And it was really exciting because I learned how these businesses scaled. And some of these businesses were a mom and pop shop with one employee. Some of them we had 19/20 locations were $30 million businesses. So I really saw the inner workings and the struggles of entrepreneurship. And part of my job was I spoke a lot. I was on stage all the time persuaded in convincing these doctors to adopt our methodology. So I learned a lot about persuasion. And I love the idea of speaking. So what's funny is I didn't do speaking coaching before I started my business. I was a speaker and  trainer doing a ton of speaking. And I had to coach and teach my team of trainers, how to not be technical trainers, but be persuaders from the stage. So my background as a speaker, coach was actually teaching other executives and trainers how to do that. And fast forward the online thing. I just knew I had to do something different and be at home with now at the time two babies. So yeah, so the online thing when you and I crossed paths, I was still thinking that I would do what I did before, which was train like corporate people how to be more effective and not so boring, and their PowerPoints and like, I thought I would help them like wake up and be normal and speak. And then I met other online entrepreneurs in different programs. And I'm like, Oh, my gosh, these are my people. And when I would get responses back from clients who were in the corporate life, I cringed because I hated their pace. And I wanted, I crave that freedom and the flexibility and all the you know, generic things we all say about our lifestyle businesses. Wanted to geek out to have these conversations. So I decided like screw it, pivot. And so when we met, I was pivoting into serving online entrepreneurs from corporate and just trying to figure out like, how the heck do I build a website on Kajabi and all of those things, so

Tina

And ladies, she has a beautiful one. It's gorgeous. Um, yeah. Okay, so I'm like, I want to ask you both about speaking and helping the listeners now about speaking but also your story I'm so intrigued by as well so I might stay on that while we're while we're in going what you started with so you've been going now in the online space two years? Three?

Heather

What year is it two I start Ah, yeah by the time this airs I'll be like a full in the online space for two years, the business for three. So I kind of like everyone toggle with it, started the business the bit of created revenues periods where, but yeah, I celebrated I guess, my full time two year anniversary was back in April of this year.

Tina

Yes. And so what I've been trained always in the first couple of years is what you start with you very quickly change that offer. How have your offerings changed since you began? 

Heather

Ooh, it's like you birth a baby and then watch them grow. It's so originally when I started it was one on one coaching. And I knew I wanted to do like perfectly honest with you. I did not want to do that for very long. I was very much in love with the idea of having a flexible schedule. So coming from a life where I traveled a ton in my old life. I was all over I kind of travel all over the world speaking on stages. I got to lead conferences, playing conferences like it was fun. Man, people would wine and dine me like a mofo when I would travel and it was so fun. I love that live you miss it. I actually, i do, i do. I missed a lot of that. However, what I was missing. So at the time, my oldest son was super little. So my husband like totally good. They developed a really great relationship while I was traveling. But when I had my second baby, my older son was three and started asking farmer questions about mommy not at bedtime. And he also told us at the daycare that mommy worked on an airplane. Yeah, and then my second son was he was a stage five clinger with me, where he was not as in tune of wanting to like travel and be away from his bed, he was just not as flexible as the first. So I just realized, you know, I can do the traveling thing, which I love. I love the travel. Oh, my goodness, I miss traveling so much right now, like, Oh, it's been terrible. But what I realized was, I had developed this narrative in my mind, based around the people that I admired in my former life. So there were not very many. But there were successful women in this corporate company higher up at the site. Let me go aside for a little bit. The company that I worked for, we grew it and it did. So well, we sold our company for $151 million, it was part of that acquisition. And then I got a lead all these international projects to help this company deal and these other companies like, I mean, we're talking. There's pretty fun stuff happening but the mentors and examples that I saw of other women, and just the even the men executives, they worked 12 to 13 hour days, and they were on the road all the time. And I looked at them, and I had this flash moment of going, I do not want that life. Even though I'm good traveling, and I know I can build a healthy relationship with my kids. I don't want that. And I think deep down that if I would have chose this narrative to be on the road, but unlike be the working mom thing, I would justify it. But deep down I was always feel a sense of guilt, even though I shouldn't. I would and I didn't want that. And I wanted to not wear pants when I work. So I don't remember what your original question is, I got so excited. But um, I began with the online thing I love it was

Tina

Because I had the same thing. I've had my business for four years before I had my kids. So they've never known any other option. And for me, it was going when they were little, I actually just wanted to hang with them a lot more. And so it wasn't, it wasn't so much out of guilt, but going we can design our life for the different seasons that we're in and then once they hear like you're still in the middle stage, but once my youngest went to school, they were kinda like there was all this time to go, alright, now it's my time again, like it's such a short window that they're suddenly Oh, yeah, but mind you I'm getting on a plane today for the first time since COVID. After our interview, and I'm really nervous about it, we got the masks and other things.

Heather

I flew last year on like a one hour puddle jumper up to Seattle to speak and you have to wear like, you mask it right but my recommendation is bring a straw with you. So that way if you do want to drink things, you can take your mask off. They're fine to take your mask off to drink, but use a straw and just make life easy on yourself.

Tina

Yeah I’m going to chuck on one of the stainless steel ones in there. That's a great tip. 

Heather

There you go. 

Tina

Yeah. All right. So you started off with your online program. How have you because you started off launching?

Heather

Oh yeah, okay. Now I remember I got totally sidetracked. I love I love it. I love it. Yeah, it's a side note, or like a big thing in my program, people laugh all the time. I have a lot of side notes. So I started one on one and I knew because I didn't want to do the one on one coaching to fill up my calendar just replace it. I knew I wanted to ultimately have digital courses. But I really struggle with this idea of go out and design the perfect course and then sell it. It's something about me I'm like that feels like a lot of work for something that I don't know if it's going to work. So something just didn't click for me. So I I resisted it. And I kept stewing on the idea of like, what's the course going to be? What's this going to be? And I sat for a very long time in indecision and action. And eventually I was like screw it, let's just do it. So I started with a group coaching program that I live launched, and I am a I can totally fly by the seat of my pants work in the 11th hour build as I go kinda gal, so I pre sold it. I had a phenomenal webinar because that's what I do. I teach people how to speak persuasively, knock it out of the park webinar. I like had a 90% sales closing conversion on my sales calls sold out the first program, and then I had to build it as we go. So we did that. And that was in the fall of 2019. Yeah. And it went exceptionally well. I launched again live launched in the spring of 2020. Like cart closed the week before the world shutdown. So like, that was a big sigh of relief that I did not have to sell how to speak on stages in the middle of shutdown that would have been a disaster. So I say I dodged a real bullet on that one, so we just pivoted a stage is simply a platform to share your message for person. 

Tina

And I think a lot of people had to learn really quickly how to speak virtually, which I think in a lot of sense is harder. When I've done the groups of like 50 or 60. It's so much easier to hold people's engagement and entertainment in a room than it is on a screen. So yeah, so I think it's even more needed.

Heather

It totally is. And you want to know, let's go on that side tangent for a second. Because why that is because people get really frustrated with the virtual thing. But why it's so difficult is because communication happens in more than just the words we say. Communication is our words. It's how we say those words and the body language. And most people don't realize that the words we say is only 7% of what we communicate, 38% is how we say it, and then 55% of the body language. So putting this into context, that all makes sense. When we're the speaker, we're like, oh, okay, I got to get my message apart. And I teach people this, right, you got to work on your body language, you got to work on your eye contact with the camera lens, not the screen.

Tina

Well, people can't see that he's listening to the podcast, but I'm looking at Heather the whole time. And Heather's looking straight at the camera.

Heather

I'm looking at the camera, because I know so here's, here's the thing. Yeah, most people when they present, they rely on the reactions of their audience, because that's what fuels their energy. That gives them that constant head nodding of Oh, yeah, they're with me. Oh, I'm on the right track. Oh, Pat, on the back, here I go. I'm doing a good job. Most people need that constant reassurance. Because I mean, it's good. We want to know that our message is resonating with other people. So what happens is when we're live, we immediately get that. But what happens when we go virtual, it's like a stark contrast of no longer do we have that feedback in the same way. So not only do like, so if like, right now, you mentioned I'm staring at the camera lens, I would have to look down to see Tina, to see Tina to get that I no longer giving her the gift of eye contact, which improves her experience to make me comfortable. You hear that.

Tina

I see it now. I feel like I should be looking at you. Hi, Heather. But then I'm like, but what do you do?

Heather

It’s like we’re not talking, it's like a mess, right? And then think about if you're virtually presenting to a group, and you look at the whole group, where people don't give body language back to you the same way virtually as they would live. So then what happens is, if you're looking this virtual group, you're then in your head going, are they interested, wait are they distracted?

Tina

Oh, problem. Oh, my God, they look simple and quick, dance like a monkey.

Heather

And then we go into over reactive mode. So all these head games that we already all have anyways, it's amplified, but that's what's happening in the virtual front. So now that you can kind of know, Okay, wait, this is what's happening I'm just craving immediate feedback. Because even though we're communicating as a speaker, our audience has also communicated in the body language they give us so void of that we feel like we're shooting in the dark. But that's a big reason why I think everybody we all have to be confident in what we're talking about. Otherwise, that beast in our minds is gonna take over second guessing at every single turn. Are we doing it right? Do they like us enough? It's like back in high school, like, are we popular enough? Who knows?

Tina

Yeah, so sound like this happened to me last I can actually you commented at the same time was, I'm filming for one of my new courses, Limited Launch Formula, all about live launching. And it's a pre-recorded course. And I haven't filmed a pre-recorded course in eight months. Since I filmed pre recorded content, I'm alive and going all the way. And I find it so much harder to do pre-recorded content than live and is that because I'm like, this loser who needs constant validation and feedback?

Heather

A couple of reasons. But here's some of the things that contribute to that. So if you're anything like me, I am a severe procrastinator, where I am a if you put something on my calendar that's pre recorded contact or like a slide deck or something else, I will be like, ah, I have to stew on this a little bit more. I'm not quite ready. I just find everything else to do include every like, including reorganizing my pantry but if you schedule me a live q&a in your group, or you schedule me a live whatever in the group, I'm like, I read let's go let's do that I will deliver a TED style talk like it's going to be good. So some people are wired for that live interaction because they need that like pressure to “perform at their best,” which we'll talk about that that's kind of a truth we tell ourselves that's based in not the best theory we could use, but other people hate the idea of lies because they hate saying things wrong. More or not like really thinking about what they say. So the idea of recorded there's a safety net that if something goes wrong, they can take it back or delete it. So why it’s not better than the other, but people have to understand that you're probably wired for one or the other doesn't mean that you can't do both. We all need to build both of those skills, but just know which one you do better with, so that you can optimize that, get really exceptional at that and then work on the other one. So for you your life, and part of it is you like the energy of the group. But also it's probably that spontaneity that you have to perform, and you rise to the challenge versus you know, you have that safety net. 

Tina

So it's just kind of not the same energy like I'll go with live. I'm like, I'm there. I'm in the moment. I'm pregnant. I'm right there whereas when it's pre recorded, you know, you sitting there waiting to hit recording like Okay, come on. You've got this, okay, like just you're talking to me, you've got to really, the me, I've got to really go into that space of going okay, who's gonna be watching this? Where are they at? And get to them before I can actually do it. Oh, hitting live is so much easier.

Heather

It really is because your energy starts out positive from the start typically with recorded, it takes you a bit to warm up to more of a natural voice. So I always say just like a quick hack, if you are going to do recorded video, do one do a burner video. Meaning do one to like warm it up so that way the second video It sounds more like you but that first one you're it's like running without stretching. I don't know if that's a thing.

Tina

One of my things that I've always done is when I do that pre-recorded content to film the first video last, yes, people are getting that first impression. It's not my first one. It's when I come back and I'm like, Alright, like I know how much gold is gonna be in the future. This is gonna be the best thing ever. 

Heather

To start. That's it's such a smart trick. I love it 

Tina

Because your energy is different. Okay, well, let's stay on that for a second. So when because obviously I work with a whole lot of women who are building online programs. And a lot of that is showing up and being seen and building their personal brand. And their thought leadership and getting that credibility, which means sharing that voice and for a lot of people they've come from where they've got a bucket load of expertise in their, like service based business or their corporate world that they've been in, but never built a personal brand. And that can be horrifyingly frightening. How do you encourage people to kind of go get over those nerves and show up?

Heather

This is such a complicated topic, because it's so it's so personal, right? And part of it is, maybe this is a weird thing to say there's kind of a rite of passage as an entrepreneur, that you have to you start off strong, you know, you have this awesome credibility, we come in, like guns blazing swinging for the fences, because we're like, we have experience, we're not just a woke up yesterday decided to work on the beach entrepreneur, like we know what we're doing. So we come in thinking that we have to pack all this stuff and kind of prove our back experience. Speaking for myself, nobody knows me in this space, like, but they have to know that I'm legit. So I would try to like cram all this credibility into every conversation. You don't have to do that. I think what you can do is take some pressure off yourself that if you show up and say, how can I be most valuable for my audience right now? How can I serve them? And think about this, the term value is way overused in the space. So I just want to clarify, value is not what we determine is helpful information value is something that's actually helpful from your audience's perspective. Value is in the eye of the perceiver. So what we have to think about is, if we think something's valuable, that doesn't mean anything. The question is, does your audience find value in it? And if we focus on then understanding who our audience is, what they actually need, what they're really frustrated with, what they think would be a slam dunk. Here's what happens when you come in as an expert, we think we need to bring in the college 401 level courses into teaching something because that's what's really going to be helpful is to give them like all the best of the best. That's not helpful to our audiences, because most of them are still trying to figure out the prerequisites to even get into the program. So it is a disservice. It is the opposite of valuable by making people feel like they're not ready enough or good enough or smart enough to understand the thing that we're teaching. So it's our responsibility, if we want to show up, start building a personal brand, learn the lingo, have your audience, honor that and then translate all your jargon into stuff that actually serves them. So if you just focus on service, you'll find your credibility skyrockets, and your expertise will really shine without you ever having to say it.

Tina

Yeah, and I think that is the absolute key because yeah, even when I started, I've got like a thing with social media. I love it because you can connect with it and it opens up a whole world of people. To be able to serve and impact and do all of that sort of thing. But if I didn't need it for business, I would be a complete introverted hermit. And I would never be seen by the world ever. And I had a really hard time in going like choosing the parts of myself I would show and the parts of myself, I would keep private so that I kept that going. And what really clicked it for me was going what is going to be of highest service to people. And if I focus on that, it's the same when I'm live launching, there's so much you know, there's so much you, when you're launching, you're out there, by the end of the launch period, I'm like, I'm sick of my own voice. Oh, my gosh. But if you focus on on your customers, you're always going to say the right thing and show up how you need to, I think.

Heather

Yeah, I think that's what you have to keep coming back to, again, to get them when you're feeling nervous, when you're feeling burned out, when you're feeling you're feeling like those expectations for a launch. And it's stressful, because you have to hit your numbers, or I don't know, whatever those things are, whenever you come back and say, why am I doing this? And more importantly, the question I like to ask, this is a really good hack for someone who struggles with nerves. So say you get nervous going live, or you get nervous on video, or you have something big coming up. What I typically find is when it comes to nerves, most people are focused on their own story, how am I going to look? I don't like the way I look on camera, or what if I get it wrong? Or what if the technology breaks? And all these things? And what you notice is a lot of those all those questions are me-focused, they're all about me, like how am I going to come across? How am I going to come across on on video? Or how am I going to look and what others gonna think of me. And what happens is when we have those negative emotions, we're typically internally reflecting about ourselves, which is the opposite of why we're doing what we're doing. Most entrepreneurs that I've met, they always have some kind of service centric, heart centric mission, that they want to do something because they know they can help others. So what I like to tell people is switch your questions. If you're feeling nervous, or you're feeling overwhelmed or feeling frustrated, start asking different questions. And those questions that I like to do is this redirects of who is coming to watch my life today? How might she be feeling coming into this? What could she be frustrated or scared about? How could she be afraid? Like when it comes to video, and let's say I teach people how to be more confident on camera and what to say? Maybe somebody who comes to one of my lives as they're feeling like, what if I get it wrong? Like what if I say something online, somebody grabs that and then attacks me and tells me that I'm an idiot? What if I show up? And I make a mistake? Or? Or what if the? What if my video breaks, or they're thinking of all these things, right? So if I start running through this narrative in my head around how they might be feeling, what I start thinking is like, oh, honey, like, I can help you, you don't have to be perfect, you don't have to get it right. You just have to be honest and have good intentions. And you have to show up, and you have to do your best and own it as you do. And then I start thinking about like, Oh, I can help this person. And all the sudden my nerves or my fears or whatever else, it starts directing to the kind of like this excitement around, I've done this before I can help this person. And that narrative, you know how people in the past they're like, nerves are the same physical energy as excitement. And I kind of want to slap those people because they're like, yeah, it's not just as easy as being like, I'm excited. I'm excited. I'm excited. No, you still want to put pants a little bit like it does work. So what you have to do is you have to change the narrative in your head. So that's my pathway that I say, start asking different questions, start imagining Susie, or Shelley or Steve, or I don't know, I bid le s names is what I'm going with right now. But imagine them, think about their narrative, and then get excited to help them. And now you've just effectively converted your nervous energy into positive energy, and then you go live. Like, I think that's what's really powerful is when we start focusing on the person, even if it's a story we create around them. We can work with that. So we just didn't have to hit go.

Tina

Yeah. And so how important do you think it is as course creators to be good at speaking? I’m like I know the answer to this one.

Heather

I giggle a bit because everyone's so focused on writing email, and having the perfect social media captions or how to create carousels on Instagram or whatever else. And then they are... 

Tina

Am I ranking them pretty well though

Heather

They are good, right. But we don't need to be spending seven hours on creating one carousel post. Like, here's the thing. We have skills going into our business and we have to build skills in our business. And I think most people take for granted the skills that we already bring thinking like oh moot point, it's enough. Speaking one of those things, we talk to people every single day. We talk to our spouses, we talk to our kids, we talk to our friends, we talk to our clients and we just speak as we always have throughout our lives. Most people haven't really taken a communication class or public speaking class outside of something in college. But this, the shift that I like to help entrepreneurs make is going, you know, when you are in corporate or you're in college, and you speak, you're presenting something like, usually the speech is the destination. If I can get the speech done, I'll get the grade. Or if I get the corporate presentation, I'll check the box, I'm done with that workshop, or that  training or that presentation to the board. It's the destination. Well, when it comes to be an entrepreneur, speaking is a vehicle for your marketing. Because especially as a personal brand, when you show up and talk about your business, you are the best ambassador for your business. The challenge is most entrepreneurs don't know how to talk about their business in a way that captures other people's interests and pulls them in ie. they don't know how to market because we're not trained marketers for most of us entering this thing. So they don't approach speaking as such. So it's not about the skill of speaking, we all know how to speak, we all know how to talk, I would argue, but speaking is a skill of persuasion. And for me, that is a skill that needs to be nurtured and developed if you want to become an ambassador for your brand. But I think you're your best brand asset. And the more you learn how to use it, the better you can be at capturing interest

Tina

I really written that down, because I'm like what you just said, then that's your soundbite right there.

Heather

Yeah, that write that down 

Tina

Like that is good. 

Heather

I got more but I can’t front.

Tina

I loved that. And so like, on that note, too, because I do think, you know, a lot of people and I've seen you talk about this on your social media and when you do IG TV as well is that people that are more introverted, will see the extroverts or see the introverts that can learn to perform and go, I can't do that, and discount themselves from being able to sell their business or sell themselves and do those sorts of things and show up because they're introverted. How do you, how is it different for people that are naturally, you know, don't mind the spotlight and other people that are going? Oh, my gosh, people are seeing me right now.

Heather

Okay, so when you say what somebody says they're like, I can't do that, because I'm an introvert. Yeah. I am an introvert, y'all. Like I am an introvert, which most people, it's very much surprising to them, but I know how to turn it on. However, I have a big personality. I got big crazy hand gestures, you know, my voice, like you're listening to this. I have an interesting voice. Because I've trained my voice to different volumes, different pace, different pitches, like I bubble around, like my voice is an instrument. I've trained myself to do this. And I don't expect other people to right out of the gate be like, oh, as dynamic and charismatic and crazy as I'd be right now like it. I think there's a couple things happening here. So first, we have to acknowledge that statement, like, Oh, I could never do that. We have to replace that with a different question of going, how can I do that in a way that's authentic to me? How can I do that in a way that's authentic? To me, there's a there's a big problem that I see happening a lot right now in the online space, where is what I call the entrepreneurial parenting effect, which is we see the big names, ie the Amy Porterfield, the world, James Wedmore, whoever else that were admiring and following. And we see what they do. And we listen and consume all their content. And then all the sudden, we start saying, Well, hey there, or bye for now, or whatever the phrases that everyone knows how to say things exactly like Amy Porterfield, because she's been in our ears for years, or whoever else we follow, right? What happens is we become these little parrots of the people we follow because we think that's what we need to sound like if we want to be successful. Or we have to have big energy like Jasmine Star and be sassy and say, Hey, boo, whatever, 

Tina

I don’t think anyone can be like Jasmine Star.

Heather

I know, like she's her own person. However, these are the models we see. Right? And we start taking inventory of going here's the menu of my choices, who can I be most like? And we start comparing how we show up to that even if we're not intentionally thinking about it will say things like I always joke with my with my clients and students are like, Oh my gosh, I totally said an Amy thing the other day, or I totally said a Heather thing. And it's like, all right, the first step is to call it out. But here's what I want you to think about when we ask the question, how could I make that work for me? What we have to ask us is how do we bring our own energy in a way that's compelling for our audience? Because remember how I said before, how we speak to people, it's the words we say, which is what most people spend their time on. But it's not just the words it's how we say those words and our body language to go with it. So what I like to tell people is how you deliver your information, consider it like a car stereo dial, like on a radio, where you have like your loudest level and then you have your most quiet level. and in this situation, we're not going to talk about volume in terms of like your actual voice volume. But I'm thinking like your energy. If you think about like your most wild free spirited, three margaritas, maybe seven margaritas deep depending on your style, like your wildest, crazy, most uncensored version of you level 10. You're not gonna bring that to any kind of stage in your business, let's just be clear. So but you know what your 10 is? Have you like, let loose? And then you know, like your most quiet, reserved version of you. That's also not what you're going to bring in your business. It is up to you, and no one else to determine what the comfortable range of your dial is for your personality. That means are you going to use funky weird analogies and stories? For me totally high on my volume switch? I use totally outlandish things. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Are you gonna use humor that's up to you? Are you a funny person, use the humor. If you're not naturally funny, please do not attempt to be funny on a stage. If you are a super serious person, if that works for you, own it, but maybe bring it a little sarcasm sometimes. Like, I think what we have to be very highly aware of is we do not have to do it the same way as anyone else. What's most important is we figure out what's most true for us, like how do we bring our personality on a stage without being Eeyore from Winnie the Pooh. And that's what's going to be interesting for people, people want to know you, but you have to actually bring you to the party if you want people to connect with it.

Tina

Yeah, and I think that, you know, you mentioned rite of passage before as well. And I think that has a lot to do with. It is testing and measuring and going getting comfortable enough to step into going, I'm just going to be who I am. And that is okay. Like it took me a long time to go. You know what, I don't wear a lot of makeup, I wear my hair on top of my head. I'm not funny at all. But sometimes I'm so geeky that it can be perceived as funny. And that's really the only time I'm ever gonna get and really embrace that. You know, I'm not cool. I'm not hip. I can't say the words like, you know, you mentioned boo before and all that. 

Heather

I can't say that I 

Tina

If I was even like Heiko French,

Heather

Like I just, it's just no. 

Tina

Once I really went, you know, we could just use our own language at our own style. That's always what's going to find our tribe and either attract or polarize the right people.

Heather

Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. And I think that that's one of the big beefs I havewith swipes and templates. Yeah, all of the plug and play, let's get there faster things, you know, insight, we're talking really about my program. So I taught my program was a group coaching program to start, we made it through the quarantine, I launched it again. And then I converted it into a like, digital course, where it was kind of self contained. I had people go through that. And I realized that what I was really missing was being able to give people feedback and have people work through it. So I shifted into a different kind of program where now it's a hybrid. It's a coaching program, and digital course where they get immediate access to and coaching. And one of the things that I find is so important, is people need to understand that to get better at a skill, they cannot copy and paste from another person. They cannot just take Heather's webinar script, or Heather's keynote strip or Heather's podcast, go to things. And then insert pain here, insert deep desire here, insert thing here. Because what happens is, have you ever followed directions on your phone where you've had your phone take you somewhere and then you get there? And you're like, I have no idea how to get home. So then you rely on your phone to then tell you Siri, how do I get home? Like yeah, I feel like a lot of us are being sold that bill here on the online space around, get the latest swipe or the latest this, latest that to make it easier, so you don't have to think. And what I really challenged my clients and students is, look, this is not going to be the easiest program you've taken, I'm not going to be an easy coach on you. Because I'm going to make you think, and I'm gonna make you sweat. And I'm going to get you get uncomfortable. Because the thing is, I don't want you to be a mini version of me or anybody else online, I want you to show up as the fullest, most badass version of you. That's what's going to give you the power to speak and own a stage and connect people like a frickin magnet. So in my programs, we we use frameworks, we have some templates and suggested scripting, but I like slap hands for anybody who does a copy and paste because speaking is not a copy and paste thing. Like you got to work through the struggle to become a better communicator. So I like yeah, I'm a huge advocate around work work. If you got a struggle, if you're not comfortable, you're not figuring out your style.

Tina

Yeah, I love that. And then so as we've moved into this virtual world, and I think even when things go back to normal, I still think virtual is going to be a whole lot more prevalent. And then what it was before? What do you think as course creators like the stages that you should be preparing for getting invited on? 

Heather

Hmm. I'm sorry, Tina, hang on one second. 

Tina

All right visit from Heather's little little one that really Chica jumping into that any time

Heather

About this, like mom, mom life thing constantly balancing. Okay. So stages that people should be thinking about right now. Right? Yeah. So what I want to do is have people start thinking about two different kinds of categories of stages to start. So I think a lot of people, when they think speaking, their brain goes in one of two ways, oh, I want to show up on and get comfortable on Facebook Lives, or Oh, I want to show up on Instagram stories, or, or maybe I want to do my own podcast like, like you have here, we start thinking about these ways we want to show up. That's one area, we call that our own stages. And those are a powerful place for us to play. And I would highly recommend that everyone selects at least one virtual stage that they're showing their face, and showing up consistently with their voice. I think that's really important. And the reason for that is you need to have a strong body of work, you need a body of work so that people can actually experience your expertise. Because I think that we're we have this idea in the online space that if you have your funnel set up correctly, you can convert someone right out of the gate, which could be true. But also we need to honor that not all people make purchase purchasing decisions, like immediately, yeah, they sometimes need to stick around for a while, as we all know. So having your own body of work, you want to make sure that you choose that. So I think Facebook Lives are a great safety net place to start because they're easy, and you can show up and do kind of a show. And you don't have to do audience interaction, you literally can just use it as a platform to show up and hit record a video, because most people watch it on the replay later. So I'm a huge advocate of Facebook Lives. So I think that's a great place to start. If you don't want to do a podcast or a YouTube channel, start with Facebook Lives. But what I think people need to start thinking about is how do we actually get out and get more eyes on our business, more eyes on us. And that second category is guest status. And that's what I think a lot of people think of when they think well, I'm going to start speaking, they think guest stages but don't really understand why the goal is to get visibility to bring people back to your stages to then be part of your business. So some of those stages. One that I think right now, this might be a really weird geeky one. But overlooked. Did you know that if you go live with someone on Instagram, you tap into their audience? So let's say so for example, if I invite you in like hey, Tina, would you come have a chat with me on Instagram so we can talk about digital courses? if I invite you “on my ID” I actually tap into your audience and I now have a microphone to your entire audience. So IG like people don't really understand that I think that that you can invite guests with bigger audiences on your “IG Show” you have high exposure. So that's like an easy one to start with. But podcast for sure exactly what we're doing here today. Podcast is definitely an area that we should be exploring, especially if our ideal audience are listening to podcasts. And the other one that I love is being a guest inside other people's programs. It's not one that people talk about, because typically, it's not for audiences of hundreds or 1000s. Yeah, however, when you're a guest inside someone's program, or mastermind, it's a captive audience that has proven to spend money with the first posting, and then 

Tina

Credibility just like goes through the roof.

Heather

Credibility is high. And also those people are already investing in the growth of their business. And if you happen to be teaching something that aligns with that their likelihood to invest in someone that they trust is higher. So I find you can have much smaller groups, much higher kind of conversion rate on your time, if you guess speak inside programs.

Tina

Definitely. And it builds off the trust, too. I mean, we have like in Her Empire Builder, we have a guest expert every month in our mastermind, you are one of our fabulous. But what I find is when people come in, it's immediately through our whole audience, both in the mastermind and on Instagram and our wider audience as well that then sees that person and goes, Okay, well, if Tina trusts them, that they're the best in the industry, then we're going to give them that opportunity. And it that credibility just skyrockets. It's Yeah, like you said, I think one of the ones that are really, really overlooked, but it also is a little bit more difficult to get because it is very much a like you need connections to be able to do that. And that's where all the networking things come in as well. Talking to the right people.

Heather

Yeah, I agree. It's the networking thing. I think a lot of people think that getting on to podcasts or getting into courses It's all about cold pitching, which that's what most people think of when they think of guesting. And I like to laugh. I'm like, I don't think I have maybe one or two. I don't I've never cold pitch anyone? I don't I don't cold pitch. I know I have an ad too. I like and one of the things we'll be gearing up into it a lot more of that. But I've done a ton of guest speaking and a ton of podcast interviews, but most of it has been because of my networking. Yeah. When I'm already in conversations with people, and then it's like, Hey, you want to be on my show? Of course I do. You want to be on my show? Great. Yeah, I do something called laying the track. And that is you start establishing relationships with people way early before you ever go for an ask. And you don't build the relationships, because you're trying to go for an ask you build relationships, because you actually respect how people do business and you admire their work. And when you do that, I actually find that pitching becomes very effortless.

Tina

Oh, yeah, completely. Yeah. I've never cold pitch before. But on this, because there might be people that like going, Well, I want to get on something now. So for the release of my book, Million Dollar Micro Business, I had the goal that I wanted to be on 50 people's podcasts within a month. And yeah, that is a lot. And so we cold pitched out for that. Because, you know, basically, I put on my social media. And this is the thing too, is you have to ask for what you want too. One of the things I did was I put a tile up saying, want me on your podcast. And I had a girlfriend call me and go, dude, are you serious? Like you just so just asked for it. I'm like, well, otherwise people waiting. I have no shame in asking. It's like, I need to promote the book, I want to be able to share that message. So I'm gonna so I put that on my social media. We booked 22 podcast interviews just from that, and then cold pitching out to then get all of these ones that I have admired, but I have never spoken to I don't know them. They don't know me well, and then we're on there. So sometimes all it takes is just just to ask as well.

Heather

You just asking. And the cool part is, is if when you start with your network, when you start by doing some of those easier, and they might not be as exciting that might not be millions of downloads, right? But the more that you do, the more one practice you get where you don't sound like a blubbering idiot. I mean, come on, like everyone, we word vomit a bit when you first start doing interviews. So get that out of the way, right? And then start building your track record, building your credibility so that you have some body of work not only on your platforms, but on other people's before you go out and pitch. So I think like, yes, we all want it now. Yes, of course, we want to be on Oprah stage now. But if you had that opportunity right now, would you really be at your best like is your message as well defined as it could be if you earn the right to get to that stage?

Tina

Yes, yes. 100%. All right. I have one final question for you. And it's more on the personal side. Because I'm so intrigued at the moment, you're what halfway through the 75 HARD, which for people that don't know what that is, it is hardcore. Heather, can you tell us what it is? And why you decided to do it and how you

still surviving? 

Heather

Oh my god to avoid this. So I'm on day 51 right now, 

Tina

So I have a round of applause. 

Heather

So by the time this airs, I will be done and it's 75 heart is a it's technically called a mental toughness challenge by I can't Andy Friszella who's I don't know CEO of I know. He's a very like masculine macho dude. He's not my cup of tea. Because Yeah, it's way intense, like skull and crossbones. And I, when I first saw the challenge, I was like, What the heck. So here's what it is. It's a mental toughness challenge, where you intentionally put yourself in hard situations for 75 days to train your brain that you can do hard things. Like if you put your energy and effort behind, you can do hard things. And it came from him asking his Navy SEAL who ran a bunch of like ultra marathons in 50 days, he was like how, and the guy was like put yourself intentionally in very difficult situations, and you will become mentally tough. So the challenge is, you have to work out twice a day for 45 minutes. Each one of them has to be outside. You have to follow whatever diet you choose. But it has to be like a strict diet with no cheat meals, no alcohol, you have to take a picture every single day. And you have to read 10 pages from a nonfiction book every single day. So there's like a list six or something activities they have to do every single day. And for 75 days non negotiable. Cool. Yeah, I first saw this, Anthony trucks posted about this. In the first year he did the challenge. And I saw he lost like 25 pounds and I was like, whoa, but that's friggin intense. No, thank you. And then I saw a friend of mine on Instagram. She went live and talked about it at the end of March. And I saw that and I was like, wait, she did it. I thought I was really intrigued. She started talking about it. So then I listened to his podcast episode I started exploring it. And I had this aha moment of going look, I am just probably like all of us I go through especially this last year with quarantine and having a kindergartener doing kindergarten and zoom, which, what is that about, and then trying to figure out business and life and teaching people how to speak on stages, which all of a sudden, the stages were closed, and all the things right, where my mental energy and physical energy was just like a roller coaster, all through quarantine, right? had really good days, really bad days. And I really have struggled being consistent with routines, being consistent with my health, and I know all the things that I want to do. But for some reason or another, when life would change, or I'd get sick or struggles would happen, I'd fall off the boat. And this idea of developing mental toughness or mental resiliency really resonated with me, and it resonated the most, because of what I told you earlier. I hate templates and swipes and really prescriptive formulas. So anything that I never tried, they tell me what to do. And I don't know about you, but as an entrepreneur, I hate being told what to do. Yeah, I take a course I'm like, I'm not gonna follow your step by step I'm gonna do a my way. So this program, while it sounds very prescriptive, it actually was very fluid around, you have to figure out what you're going to learn through reading, you have to figure out what kind of workouts you're going to do, you got to figure out what diet you're doing and what you're going to stick to. And my whole mantra around this was how can I develop something that was sustainable. So this was the person that I would become the kind of person who is healthy, who is reliable. And what I've figured out through this whole thing is, it's not about mental toughness, it's not about the physical stuff. Although I will tell you, this mama is looking good. What I The thing that I have had come out of this for me is I have developed a level of personal integrity that I've never had in my life. And that means when I say I'm going to do something to myself, not to other people, but to myself, I actually do it. When I say here's what I'm going to eat today, or here's where I'm going to work out today, or here's my schedule, I'm going to follow today my business, here's what I'm going to learn this week, when I declare that for myself. It gets done. And Never in my life have I ever had that I always get stuff done. I'm a high performer, as most of us are as entrepreneurs, I'm really good at getting stuff done. But I was really good at breaking promises to myself. And that's not me anymore. So for me, it's been incredible. I don't really recommend the challenge to other people, because it's really insane. 

Tina

But I've been seeing it for a long time and going but the biggest thing and I am so impressed and so inspired by not only you sticking with it and doing it but also your takeaways like that personal integrity is so big with that element, but how have you actually like logistically found the time, like two 45-minute workout today? Like 90 minutes plus getting ready, getting did like that's a couple of hours in your day that you weren't Were you a daily exerciser before you did this every day?

Heather

No it's consistent, probably three or four days a week when I was on and then I would go probably two months without it all like it's a huge time commitment for the food preparation for the exercise, reading. 

Tina

How have you done that? 

Heather

Okay, I'm just this has nothing to do that I get but I like I know. But I'll tell you my life principles are pretty consistent. So remember earlier when I was like, hey, introverts stop asking the question like, oh, that couldn't work. For me. The question is, how could that work for now? That is my life's mantra. So for me again, what I wasn't going to do was I wasn't going to pick some complicated crazy program that set me up for crap. And I said note, business lesson here. Same thing like we can't go design all these crazy complex plans to have posted on social media four times a day or having five YouTube video goes out. Like we can't make it complicated. We have to say how do we make things simpler? So for me, I started out by going alright, let me do I used to be a runner. Okay, I'd like to get back for running. What if I did a run and then my husband bought me a peloton for Christmas? Oh. We'll have to talk about that later. Big backstory around how he and I argued about that peloton and then he surprised me with it. But so I have that so we built. Because of the quarantine my husband is huge into health nutrition. He used to go to the gym every day and because of quarantine, we built a home garage gym. So we have weights we have the peloton out there we have he's got a squat rack all these fancy things that I don't use. So we have that built out there. So I'm like I know I can work out in the garage and originally started out running and then I'm after day three, I'm like there is no way. So I said okay, what's something that I can do that I can maintain? And I decided to walk so my outdoor every single day is a morning walk and I have to wake up early before my kids wake up before my husband wakes up otherwise it won't get done. I made the mistake the first week if not doing that then it was crazy. But I wake up at 5:15 in the morning and by 5:30, I'm out the door on my walk. And that walk is also where I put an audio book in my ears. And I'll tell you this, I'm on day 51. I have listened to nine books. In the last 51 days, I have physically read seven books, and my 10 pages a day in the last 51 days, every single day, I do that, and I keep my food simple. I eat similar things every single day. But nothing is overly fussy and is taking extra time. The one thing for me that has been the challenge, like huge challenges, Oh, I didn't mention this, I have to drink a gallon of water a day. So I like pee all the time. That's the big one. So a gallon of water day, but the big one has been ending my work day to go get my afternoon workout in. Yeah. And that that challenge, it means that probably half the nights, we have been my husband, I both been working on the garage, and the kids are watching Mickey Mouse Club. And so I've compromised and said, You know what, we're eating dinner late because mom has got to work out. And we're doing screen time tonight. And that's fine with me. So we're making it work. But what I've realized is it's not that I didn't have the time, I was just filling it up with other things. Yeah. And now that I am prioritizing the time for those tasks, I feel better, mentally, I'm doing better. But then also we're not spending time doing other things that really weren't important. 

Tina

What are you going to do when it finishes?

Heather

That's the big question. So actually, like full program, that there's a bunch of stuff that you can do after it. But I don't really have a big interest in that. And I'm still kind of figuring out exactly what I'm going to do. But I I don't actually see a huge change coming after like I love my morning walks. I also have a really good rotation. So I'm doing strength training four days a week I do my peloton, I rotate a bit and another four days, like I have like a plan where one day a week I take off and just do yoga, but I'm going to do my walks and I'm into my workouts every day, like that's not gonna change, I'm gonna drink water. I'm not gonna take a progress picture every day, that's probably the thing. I don't need that. I have this weird folder on my phone of me in my underwear, like. 

Tina

So that'll probably change in 30 years, you'll find those photos and be like, look at me, 

Heather

the big question is, am I going to post them online? So by the time this episode airs, guys can check out my Instagram and actually see my results because I'm like 95% positive, I'm going to share, I'm going to share the pictures

Tina

well done. Oh, thank you for sharing that personal part as well. And all of the other gold that you have now you have an evergreen course. So it's available at any time. Where's the best place for people to go and look you up and get stuck into getting better on stages?

Heather

Yeah, thank you so much. So if my like might style today around this concept of speaking and the fact that you were all speakers that we need to show up in our business and in a more confident way, and especially if you're thinking like, but what do I talk about when I get on camera? Or how would I even approach getting my messaging down to be on podcast or to really own those live streams? That's really what I hear a lot is like, but what do I talk about? How do I have the right message that actually helps my business grow? So I think the best place to go, I have a free on demand training that you guys can go watch right now. It's called How to nail your message on podcasts, live streams and other virtual stages without questioning your content or constantly second guessing what you're about to say. So if that's something that resonates with you, you can grab that right now over at heathersager.com/speak. And that's where you get the training and find out all the details about my program, which is available for entrepreneurs to not only learn the art of speaking and learn how to build a signature talk, but actually practice it and get feedback and level up the skill of speaking.

Tina

I love that. And for everybody listening, I asked this question of everybody at the end of the podcast, and most people would just say, Oh, heathersager.com/speak you guys. That's how you do a pitch. Like see it, you just wrapped it up neatly. If this is for you, if you're this type of person, if this resonates, this is where you go, and this is what we can do. Like that's what people learn from you and

you talk with them. 

Heather

That is exactly what I do. What we don't do is give you a list of 17 different ways that we can connect. 

Tina

I love it. Thank you so much, Heather. 

Heather

Of course. Thanks, Tina.