Ep147 Marketing to Mums with Katrina McCarter

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Facebook: facebook.com/marketingtomums
Website: marketingtomums.com.au

 

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Show Transcription:

Tina

Mums are one of the most powerful consumer groups in the world. And I know for a lot of businesses mums make up a big part or their whole audience. And so I wanted to bring on a special guest that could help us with marketing to mums and how to do those marketing messages, the mistakes that she sees people do when they're marketing to moms. And the best person that I could find was Katrina McCarter, who is the founder and CEO of marketing two Mums, which is a marketing and research consultancy based in Melbourne, Australia. Now Katrina is a marketing strategist, a best selling author, speaker, business advisor, and specializes in helping business owners and brands sell more effectively to the world's most powerful consumer, moms. She's a prolific researcher into mother's behaviors, and has published two books: Marketing to Mums, and The Mother of all Opportunities. She's an award winning businesswoman and a mother of three. And today, I'm interviewing her and asking all of the big questions. And what I love about our interview today is Katrina has given us real tangible tips. So if mums are in your customer base in your audience, you are going to get some practical things today that you can be aware of to put into your business to increase your conversion and customer experience for mums. Let's do it.

Katrina, welcome to her Empire Builder podcast.

Katrina

I thank you, Tina, I have been super excited about getting together with you to chat today.

Tina

Me too. I was so when I came on your podcast. And as I can't wait until we can reverse the tables. And I could ask you all the questions, which is now.

Katrina

Fantastic. I'm looking forward to what you might have planned?

Tina

Oh, yes, all the things. The first thing I want to ask you, I am always a fan of niching. It's one of the things that I think you know, a lot of success comes down to is when you can get your messaging so clear, and really talk directly to your audience. And yours has obviously been, you know, for over a decade marketing to moms, how did you get so into the focused area of marketing to moms?

Katrina

Such a good question. I became a mom in 2000 oh my goodness, 2003. I almost forgotten, God. So yeah, so I became a mom in 2003. I had previously worked corporately, in the grocery industry. And so all the brands that I worked for, were always trying to attract moms to their, you know, to buy their brand. So I kind of had that kind of instilled in me from a corporate background. But once I became a mum, my life changed so incredibly, and I found actually the transition from into motherhood really quite hard. I actually found that society kind of spoke to me differently. And I didn't like it. I really felt quite pigeon holed about who I was, and what I had to offer and all these things, other things that I enjoyed, seem to be sidelined. And I was just kind of compartmentalised. And when I kind of went out and hung out in the playground and spoke to other women, I actually realized that I wasn't alone. And so that was something that was really conscious for me, kind of as, as I kind of, you know, grew older. And I launched a business back in 2011, which was tailored directly for mothers. And that was an online group buying site for fat that really targeted families. And it was while I had this community, so I had 150,000 mums across Australia that I grew this business to. And I could really say that they were really dissatisfied with how they were being communicated with and how they were being spoken to, not just by society, but by brands and businesses as well. And I would kind of get this copy and creative that would come in from brands that I might be advertising and I go, Wow, you just really don't get how to speak to to women to mothers. Like, you know, it didn't matter how the size of the business, whether they're a big brand or not. And I thought there's something here and I went off and I did a big research study of, of my community. And I asked them, you know, what do you think, you know, how are businesses going. And what we found was 63% of Australian mums believed that brands, businesses, and advertisers did not understand them. And that's when I went, Wow, there's a big opportunity here. And I sold my first business. And I launched marketing to moms, which is my consulting business where I help businesses and brands understand mothers better,

Tina

Which is so true, because you see so much advertising that's kind of been designed by men for men, but so many of the buying decisions are made by women.

Katrina

Absolutely. I will tell you, like we see this all the time in the in the advertising industry here in Australia, the average, they did or did some research into, who's the makeup of the advertising industry here. And the typical advertising person is a 27 year old, single white male who's not had children. And he's advising brands on how to invest and spend their money. And that's because a lot of women, once they become mothers, find that the hours are not really conducive to growing a family and they leave that and it's it's a really big loss for the industry. And it has really bad implications for both consumers and brands. Yeah. And have you seen that change over the last 10 years? Very, very slowly. Tina, like there's, there's still a lot, a lot of work to be done. You know, I always say to businesses and brands make sure that doesn't matter who your consumer is, is that you've got someone who represents them in some form within your external teams and your internal teams. So don't you know, make sure that you're inducting your external teams, your suppliers, that they really understand your consumer, and they've got someone who represents that kind of consumer within that team? I reckon that's, that's vitally important.

Tina

Yeah, it completely because it is like the stats, I loved the part on your website with stats, because I love stats. 

Katrina

I’m a stat lady too!

Tina

And going like if mums were an industry, they would be the most powerful buying industry in the country.

Katrina

Yeah, not just that. So there's 6.2 million moms here in Australia, they're responsible for $132 billion in spending every single year. But not only are they really financially powerful, they're incredibly influential. And I'll share another stat with you. I just love this stat. 

Tina

I love it.

Katrina

I love the stats too, love data. When a woman becomes a mother, research shows us that she's eight times more likely to talk about businesses and brands. Also, mom is often the go to for you know, who do I who's the dentist that I should go to, what accountant should I go to? Where can I get this from out. So even if your business or brand doesn't directly sell to mothers, you need to be considering mothers in your communications, because she's likely to be asked about who to go to in your industry, and you want to make sure that she's got a favorable response, and that she could potentially recommend your business.

Tina

That is so true. And what is it like throughout all of the different companies that you've worked with? What's the biggest mistake that you see people making when they try to sell to moms? Do you have a  typical thing?

Katrina

Can I have two? Look, I see, look, for me, there's two mistakes that I observe. One of them is that we say that businesses target too broadly. They try and be all things to all mothers and it's just you know, you never with 6.2 million of us just here in Australia alone. We never all get her think and say that, say the world in the same way. So that for me is a big one. But the other thing that I say is a lot of businesses don't understand them deeply enough, or this segment that this their most profitable segment of the market, as I like to refer to it as, and as a result because they're targeting too broadly because they don't understand their consumer deeply enough credibility and trust becomes a real issue. And that kind of shows up with poor loyalty, you know, diminishing sales, and potential brand extinction. So they're kind of what what I say, but we I actually research it and I ask moms, you know, what are they think that businesses do wrong? And there's generally nine things I'm not going to go into all of them but 

Tina

I'm like, Yes, I'm here for the nine.

Katrina

I tracked this. So I've been tracking this since 2016. And we say You know, in your opinion, Mom, what are the mistakes that businesses and brands are making? The number one thing that comes out consistently is stereotyping. Moms feel like the stereotype it's 

Tina

Put something baby pink or baby blue in there and fluff it up that we're gonna love it?

Katrina

Yeah. The other thing is that mums are saying, look, treat me as a woman first, and motherhood. Second, she said, Look, motherhood is really important to me, but it's not all of me. And this is really consistent with my own lived experience. Like make sure that you're communicating with me on all the different levels there are to me. Don't just appeal to me, as you know, you know, just a mom. So definitely stereotyping. The other one that comes through always is that you treat me you treat us all like we're one homogenous group. You know, as I said earlier, that problem that I see, but there's some other ones there's not being real, like they really feel like there's a disconnect between advertising and their reality. And mums really aren't quite as aspirational as brands and businesses would like to think that we are. And I think one of them mums in our surveys. I love their stories shared something like we're not all Chino wearing blonde ladies with perfect kids and a border collie. You know, being a mom is bloody hard work.

Tina 

So that's what you mean by not all aspirational. 

Katrina

Yeah, yeah, it's like show me my real everyday show. 

Tina

We’re aspirational. But you mean like being real about it?

Katrina

Absolutely. They want some real reality. And that's where they're feeling that that real disconnect, and one of the other ones that comes through really strongly is not offering enough value. Because mums value other things than just price. And often businesses and brands think it's just a price game, and mums value time. You know, the convenience they're really willing to play, to pay a premium is looking to satisfy them with a lot of other different factors. And it's about the ability to understand what's important to her. And it really goes back to understanding them deeply enough to know what levers you need to pull and focus on in your marketing communications.

Tina

This is where I find because I've got clients that market two mums and do that. And I find that they can be really competitive because in a lot of ways, I see small business owners doing the things that you just talked about, avoiding those mistakes, so much more than big companies that have kind of taken a bit of time to come around to this real authentic way of marketing. Have you seen any patents with that?

Katrina

Yeah, look, I think that a lot of small business owners are really acutely aware of their consumer, they're taking the time, they're taking the time to understand them a lot more, but where I feel like they don't, they often don't know, what are kind of the four key primary pillars that they should be communicating that can often be a little bit more tricky. And typically, I recommend that they do a research project to understand why a consumer chooses you over anyone else. And that can be part of identifying who your core customer is, as well. Because if you can identify the three or four reasons, they choose you over anyone else, they then become your content pillars, and they're the things that you're that you need to be emphasizing and amplifying, through your business. I'm a massive believer in that people are not something that I tell my kids all the time, people. Your differences are what makes you special and you’re different in business. You know, people are choosing you for your differences. Your role is to identify what are those key differences that are meaningful for my consumer? And how can I amplify those.

Tina

Yeah. And so how different Do you think it is for businesses marketing to mums than, say the general population?

Katrina

Oh, great question. Okay, well, there's things that you need to be aware of about mums in comparison to any other kind of consumer. First up, mum's expectations are much higher on customer experience than any other consumer group out there. So that's the first thing you need to do. If you want to activate mum to recommend your business not only do you need to hit her really higher levels of customer expectations. You've got to save them and that can be quite tricky. So I get my clients to invest a lot of time and energy on how you can exceed your moms, your most profitable mom's customer expectations? Because once you've done that, you're getting them to tell everyone they know about your business and reduce Is your need to invest on paid activities. And that's something that I'm really passionate about. Let's look for the cheap ways to grow your business first and foremost.

Tina

And that is that embracing that point of difference, and having that enriched customer experience, I think really is, like, so much of the secret to success is going it's it is all about experience. And I mean, for us, we work online, and a lot of people think in online, you don't have to focus so much on the experience. But I find it's even more important because you've got to connect at more of a human to human heart level so that you get over that barrier of the screen.

Katrina

Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that we look at is where are the points where I can do a surprise and delight element. Because surprise and delight for that online experience can work really, really well. Whether that's a really surprising welcome pack that might accompany you know starting to work with me or something like that, we have to find where are the opportunities to build surprise and delight, and surprise and delight, a little tip for all your listeners is super effective if you want to build a relationship with moms, because what it says to her is, hey, I've taken the time to think about you and how you've been on my mind. And I just want to acknowledge you because so few people are mum feels like so few people. And brands actually recognize her and see her that it can go such a long way in forging really, really strong relationships.

Tina

Yeah, I do think like even my life that I had before this, we had tutoring centers. So I used to run tutoring companies. And one of the things when we surveyed our mums was to things of why they stayed with us long term. So we had four years was our lifetime stay, which was amazing for a tutoring center. And the two top things that nearly everybody said was we gave them a birthday card on their birthday. So when they came in, not the kids, we never wished the kids Happy birthday. But we had the cards with the parents with usually a freddo frog or a caramello koala inside. So really cheap. But we gave that to them when they came in and said Happy birthday. And so many mums would start crying and going, you know what? No, someone wished me happy birthday. This Yep, that was one thing. And the other thing was having defects. So when they joined us, we asked them what their favorite magazine was. And we'd always have their favorite magazines in the foyer when the kids were in tutoring sessions. And there are tutoring sessions were $80 an hour. And most mums said they came because their husbands wouldn't let them buy the trashy magazines. And so they'd sit in the foyer reading the $4 magazine, and they kept coming back because I didn't want to miss it.

Katrina

Tina, I absolutely loved that. And I'm going to be using that as an example in some of my presentations with your permission. Moms tell us it's the little things. It's the little personalized, you know, things that a brand does that will make them choose one over another. Yeah, that is a classic example of it. 

Tina

Yeah, how can you make that experience better? And so in your business, you do a lot of research and surveying which I'm a very big fan of when you've done one of those. What's been the most surprising result to you that you've got back before and you've gone? Hmm, I didn't expect that.

Katrina

Yeah, and I can tell you straight up that's a really easy question to answer. And it happened twice. So it's something now that I'm really really conscious of. We ask mums, what has the most influence over their purchasing decisions? Have you got any idea Tina? 

Tina

Oh, what would you Yeah, I'm thinking friends. 

Katrina

Yeah, okay. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I too would have thought a mom to mom recommendation you know, mom to another mom telling me this is what I need to go and do would be in the number one spot. Well, it wasn't. In all the research we've done, the number one thing that will influence mum to purchase something is actually a written testimonial and that does not need to be Yeah, it does not need to be from someone that she knows. So I really really want to emphasize the importance of having a testimonial strategy and app not just collecting the testimonials but amplifying them. Where else you know I don't let any of my clients put out any marketing communications unless it's got a written testimonial mining on it because they are so influential.

Tina

Yeah, that makes sense actually, because we saw we test and measure everything. We have written and video testimonials on sales pages, and video testimonials increased the click through rate of a sales page, but on a checkout page, the abandoning Cart like went down drastically. So we had our conversion way up when we included written testimonials on the checkout page. So it makes a lot of sense

Katrina

It's super, super important. So you need to be thinking about where all the elements were, you know, where where can I put in my testimonials? Yeah, think about it all the way through. 

Tina

And so once I have because I love that here, but is there something else that you think from the research that businesses that market to moms just need to know?

Katrina

Yeah, and you'll love this one, I'm all about profile building, as well as it's about sharing your story. And I call it story selling, particularly on social media, what we see time and time again, is moms don't like the heavy push strategies, they don't like the Buy me, etc. What they want is that gentle, gentle, more subtle kind of selling, and it can be just sharing some one story about their experience working with you. But I think the most important story to be telling is your own story. Particularly if you're a woman in business, and you're wanting to appeal to other women, sharing your story about why why you you know, started this business, why you're passionate about it, but you know, what makes you different, and then how you're going to make your customers life easier, needs to be included in there. And for me, that is without question not utilized enough by by businesses, I recommend you video it make sure it there's a short kind of form on your landing page, sorry, on your homepage, but then go into more detail in your about us. The About Us is the second most trafficked page right on a website. So hey, put on there, I put up your story. But women digest video far more easily and more readily than they do written formats as well. So make sure that when you're creating that brand story, that you're sharing that in video format as well, and that for a lot of for a lot of women I know that I've worked with, it's like Arc Trainer, I'll do anything you want, but I'm not getting on video. And I say alright, let's just go slowly, slowly and 18 months later, I can't, I can't keep them off the video. It is a massive amount going slowly, slowly.

Tina

So in my mastermind this month. It's like we're nearly at the end of the month. And it's a video challenge. So everyone had to do homepage about page sales page welcome page and on social media videos. And the pushback people are like no, I'm going you're actually like your business is nowhere near what it can be. Without those videos. Like it is so important. 

Katrina

Absolutely agree with you. They are you know, if you think about when they're most likely going to be consumed. Often on a phone while Mom, it's the evening she's laying on the couch after you know, a long day. She's, you know, dealt with the mother load that for hours after her workday, sorting out kids and what's happening, what's coming up with playdates, et cetera. And then she's flopping down. And that's when she's most likely to digest that video of yours. So definitely put it into consideration. 

Tina

While we're talking video as to some feedback that I got a month ago that made a big difference was I had a couple of messages from mums going, can you caption your videos, because I often watch them when I'm breastfeeding. Or when we're nine, I don't want other people to hear it. And up until then I haven't done captions on my videos. So save the moms, they tell you what they they will, 

Katrina

They will tell you and so and that's another thing, it's like get it to market, you will get some feedback. Yeah, you know, give mum the opportunity to, to let them know what they think of what you're doing. And you'll be able to act on that. So there's one thing I often do market research for clients. And there's one question I always ask is, if there was one thing that you could change about the business, what would it be? And what we're looking for is that opportunity for consumers and moms to come forward to say, what's the problem, what needs to be fixed, because often, if they're not given that opportunity to to make that claim, they're going to quit lazy business, you're gonna lose the customer. And it could be in most instances, it's a really simple fix.

Tina

And so with all the work that you've done, because I love the work that you do, has traditionally been for bigger businesses, but you're starting to bring in a program that's more for smaller businesses now. 

Katrina

Absolutely. I love working with the small businesses because they value so much what you're doing and they're applying it straight away.

Tina

They're not like Thank you. I teach the box on marketing with mums. They're like, Yes, I need to implement this

Katrina

and they implement and they get the results. So for me, I get great satisfaction in being a small business owner myself, I'm a one woman operator, and have been now for a decade across three businesses. And I get it, I really get those, you know those peaks and troughs. So I really want to be part of that journey. So I will be launching very, very soon though Marketing to Mums for Small Business, which is a membership group where we're actually learning things about different aspects of marketing demands, and having that monthly challenge each month just like, you know, you set your video challenge, there'll be different challenges that that relate to marketing to love that 

Tina

And where can people find out about that? 

Katrina

They can head straight over to the marketing to mums website, and they'll get all the details there.

Tina

I love it. And it's all links right below this episode too. So it's nice and easy. Katrina, thank you so much. I love it when people share tangible tips as well so that things can be implemented, which you have about 20 of them.

Katrina

I'm big on I'm a really pragmatic person you got you gotta it's got to be practical. Yeah. And I know you're the same.

Tina

Pragmatics is a word that's used to describe me a lot, actually, with my book that came out so many people have gone. It's so practical and pragmatic. There we go. 

Katrina

Big, big compliment. 

Tina

Yeah, I think so. It's a pleasure. Thanks so much, Katrina. 

Katrina

Thanks so much, Tina.